(Note: I’ve tried the search functionality. Various phrases either yielded many many many hits or none at all. Please point me in the right direction if this has been discussed concisely before. Thanks)
When I started running a couple of years ago, the people at my local running store diagnosed me with pronating feet and sold me a pair of Asics 2140s. I used a couple of pairs of those, one pair of 2150s (hurt my ankles), and a couple of pairs of Brooks Adrenalines. With my latest pair of Adrenalines up for replacement, I decided to experiment a bit and went for a pair of Saucony Triumphs, which are neutral. They felt great in the store, but after three runs and 25km I can safely conclude they’re not for me. My ankles and achilles are killing me.
So my question is: are those Sauconys just the wrong shoes or am I stuck with expensive support shoes for the rest of my life? I guess my ankles are pretty wobbly, but I’d expect that putting a bunch of miles on them would strengthen them, no? I’m doing about 40-50 mile a week, and have no problems when doing that in the Adrenalines. If the verdict is that, yes, I’d better use shoes with support, I’ll happily go back to the Adrenalines, that’s not the issue.
I’d recommend the Saucony Guide / Omni / or Hurricane (depending on the level of support you need). Those all have a bit more shoe in them than the Triumphs, and are specifically designed for pronation. Of course, I’m a HUGE fan of just sticking to what works, so if the Adrenalines work for you, I’d say use them. Try to alternate a couple types of shoes around. It will probably help with your ankles and achilles issues.
I’d recommend the Saucony Guide / Omni / or Hurricane (depending on the level of support you need). Those all have a bit more shoe in them than the Triumphs, and are specifically designed for pronation. Of course, I’m a HUGE fan of just sticking to what works, so if the Adrenalines work for you, I’d say use them. Try to alternate a couple types of shoes around. It will probably help with your ankles and achilles issues.
Thanks. But I guess I didn’t make myself clear enough: I’m asking if there’s any hope in hell that I’ll ever get off the support shoes and can get the cheap, light, and fast shoes that the rest of you guys get to use?
In the one run I was able to do outside with the Sauconys, I noticed that they seemed quite a bit faster than the Adrenalines. I was cruising along at what felt like a 4:15/km pace, and when I checked it turned out to be a 3:55/km. Now, that could have been elation from finally running outside after many many many miles on the damned treadmill, but still.
I’d recommend the Saucony Guide / Omni / or Hurricane (depending on the level of support you need). Those all have a bit more shoe in them than the Triumphs, and are specifically designed for pronation. Of course, I’m a HUGE fan of just sticking to what works, so if the Adrenalines work for you, I’d say use them. Try to alternate a couple types of shoes around. It will probably help with your ankles and achilles issues.
Thanks. But I guess I didn’t make myself clear enough: I’m asking if there’s any hope in hell that I’ll ever get off the support shoes and can get the cheap, light, and fast shoes that the rest of you guys get to use?
In the one run I was able to do outside with the Sauconys, I noticed that they seemed quite a bit faster than the Adrenalines. I was cruising along at what felt like a 4:15/km pace, and when I checked it turned out to be a 3:55/km. Now, that could have been elation from finally running outside after many many many miles on the damned treadmill, but still.
The lighter-weight shoes definitely take some acclimation. Run a mile or two in them, and switch over the the more supportive shoes. I went from Saucony Rides (actually I still use them a lot) to Kinvaras, Newton Trainers, and even XC flats, but I had to really ease my way into them. I ran a half in the Kinvaras a month ago, and my feet felt trashed afterwards - because I wasn’t used to the mileage in those shoes. Your weight will also have a LOT to do with it… Good luck.
Currently I’m running with the Saucony Grid Guide as my trainer and am adding some runs with the Fastwitch 4 to acclimate my feet to them for racing ONLY.
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The lighter-weight shoes definitely take some acclimation. Run a mile or two in them, and switch over the the more supportive shoes. I went from Saucony Rides (actually I still use them a lot) to Kinvaras, Newton Trainers, and even XC flats, but I had to really ease my way into them. I ran a half in the Kinvaras a month ago, and my feet felt trashed afterwards - because I wasn’t used to the mileage in those shoes. Your weight will also have a LOT to do with it… Good luck.
I may do that. Funny you mention weight: One reason I thought I might be able to pull off a neutral shoe is that I have lost approx 25 pounds since that first pair of Asics. I like to think that I now have a body that compares favourably to some real runners
I don’t think it is at all clear that just because a running store says you pronate, that you need special shoes at all.
While I hope that to be true, I’d like to know how I identify a proper pair of shoes without spending huge amounts of cash on shoes that don’t work out after 25km, and without the risk of injuring myself. The upside of that last risk is of course that while injured, I don’t have to buy any shoes.
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I don’t think it is at all clear that just because a running store says you pronate, that you need special shoes at all.
While I hope that to be true, I’d like to know how I identify a proper pair of shoes without spending huge amounts of cash on shoes that don’t work out after 25km, and without the risk of injuring myself. The upside of that last risk is of course that while injured, I don’t have to buy any shoes.
Have someone take a picture of you standing barefoot from behind. Let us look at how badly you pronate.
Here’s a suggested method to finding the right pair of shoes by trial and error:
Find a shoe store that allows returns. If not your local store, then the mail order sources all allow for exchanges
Do one run on a treadmill. Make it long enough to learn how the shoes will feel.
Evaluate the feeling. If it will hurt you badly after 25k, then it will hurt a little after 10 or 15k so make that your test run distance.
If they will hurt, they are still fresh since you never went outside so exchange them for another.
It is not at all worth concluding that you need a stability shoe just because these hurt you. Everyone finds shoes that randomly hurt. Once I see a picture I’ll know right away if you pronate badly or not. If you do pronate badly, we still won’t know if that’s why these shoes hurt you.
Another photo from behind of you standing in your new shoes would offer additional insight.
Static pictures aren’t really any help. Pronation is a triplane motion, not a position (well, with respect to LE mechanics that is). You do seem to have some excessive rearfoot eversion just standing there and a prominent talar bulge, so some inferences can be made. You also mentioned “run in shoes like you guys”. Do NOT fall into that pit. Not sure why you want to change at all from an Adrenaline or 2160 or whatever. If you are running 50 miles/week and not injured, you are doing fine.
I didn’t understand much of what you said there but I think I get the gist :-). As I mentioned before, if the verdict is that it’s best to stay with support shoes that’s fine with me. My “run in shoes like you guys” comment is mostly driven by financial motives and wanting choice: support shoes seem to be about 1.5 to 2 times as expensive, and you can’t go to a lighter racing shoe according to my limited research.
Yes, you can go to “lighter” shoe with a midfoot bridge and rearfoot post. Not much cheaper, but the cost of running shoes makes NO sense and is completely market driven.
A good example of a “light” shoe that shouldn’t feel much different than what you are used to would be a NB 903/4/5. The old Saucony Tangent3 was a good example as well (currently being replaced I think). Most can get “used” to any shoe of course, but you would likely have to give up your 50 mile weeks for a while and try and experiment, thus losing training time for no real gain in most cases - or worse yet an injury. I do think that the vast majority of people are put into “more” shoe than they need though, but the 2140 and/or Adrenaline GTS isn’t exactly an overkill shoe.
edit: just weighed a couple of shoes for you - my wife uses the Adrenaline GTS, size 8 womens - 9.8 oz. A size 10 mens NB 904 was 8.9 oz and a Tangent2 was 8.8 oz. For referrence my size 9.5 Saucony A4 racing flat is 6.6 oz. These are actual weights - you absolutely can’t go by the manufacturers list weights as they are all over the map. I’d estimate a mens size 10 GTS at least 11 oz, so you can “save” 2-3 oz and lose no function of the shoe and spend no more.
My “run in shoes like you guys” comment is mostly driven by financial motives and wanting choice: support shoes seem to be about 1.5 to 2 times as expensive
I don’t think that is true at all. MSRP of the Adrenaline 10 you have is $100, MSRP for the Triumphs you bought is around $130. What neutral shoes are you looking at that cost $50-$75?
i was a very heavy pronator. used to wear brooks beast. last summer, i started barefooting/huarache-wearing/zero-heel-lift-shoes stuff. i now have an almost totally forefoot plant, and whatever pronation i might engage in has become large irrelevant. it took 2-3 months of steady careful work to get there. this winter i run in brooks green silence (road & treadmill), and new balance mt101’s (trail, snow)
i was a very heavy pronator. used to wear brooks beast. last summer, i started barefooting/huarache-wearing/zero-heel-lift-shoes stuff. i now have an almost totally forefoot plant, and whatever pronation i might engage in has become large irrelevant. it took 2-3 months of steady careful work to get there. this winter i run in brooks green silence (road & treadmill), and new balance mt101’s (trail, snow)
While I’m happy for you that what you’re doing is working for you, it is not the way I want to go. For one I live in a part of the world where we have snow on the ground for 3-4 months a year. Also, while I understand that some adaptation may be needed, with my goals in mind I can’t afford a 3 month adaptation cycle. I’m pretty happy with my current mileage and speed (even though you can obviously always run more and you can always run faster). The industry provides me with shoes that work for me. I’m just seeing if I can extend the range of options open to me.
My “run in shoes like you guys” comment is mostly driven by financial motives and wanting choice: support shoes seem to be about 1.5 to 2 times as expensive
I don’t think that is true at all. MSRP of the Adrenaline 10 you have is $100, MSRP for the Triumphs you bought is around $130. What neutral shoes are you looking at that cost $50-$75?
This industry is whack. I live in Canada where that same pair of Brooks will set you back something like $140, even with our dollar on par or higher than your peso. Also, the Triumphs were marked down from an original price lower than the Brooks. And that’s just it. If I’m not limited to that category of shoe, there’s more deals to be had.
My original statement was based on my observation that the Asics 2140s I used to buy cost me $180 (yeah, really). My wife got the 1140, same shoe, but neutral, and that one was $120.
Anyway, I’m going to see if I can get used to the Sauconys (since I have 'm now), but I’ll be buying a new pair of Adrenalines as well.
