I recentley purchase a Shiv and have been struggling with the fuselage. I was hoping to get some feedback and thoughts on this idea. Most Specialized athletes run, in addition to the fuselage, a separate bottle between the bars which is more aero than no bottle. What would the possibilites be of connecting the two- so the fuselage is more of a back-up? This seems to make sense and, depending on what type of cockpit refueling system, would be easier to re-fill on the fly. Or, as is with the hard straw type cockpit bottles, you could have two different types of nutrition coming into one straw with a valve that controls which bottle you are pulling from. Does this make sense? I’ve just been struggling with the flexible straw that can be difficult to reach and attach securely while riding. Thoughts?
Are you thinking of attaching the fuelselage tube to the bottom of the between-aerobar bottle? I’d think the biggest problem would be generating enough suction. You’d probably need a branched tube that has openings in both the bottle and fuelselage. Once the BTA bottle empties it would be difficult to drink from the fuelselage.
ya, that is what I was wondering- how the hydronamics- not a word but oh well- would work. :)) I guess you could use a splitter valve but that wouldn’t make refilling any easier. Anyway, I have a friend at Camelbak and i ordered a bunch of parts to tinker- just trying to save on the “trial and error”.
I don’t own a SHIV, but have been looking closely at them.
The suction required to get fluid from the fuselage is primarily a function of 2 things, vertical difference between the top of the straw and the level of the fluid, and length of straw (which will generate some friction losses).
My guess is at the slow velocities that the fluid moves through the straw, the bigger resistance to suction will be the vertical difference not the friction and other minor losses.
So if you somehow rig these two reservoirs to be together, unless you change the distance from the water surface to the top of the straw, or unless you add a great deal of losses (longer straw, expansions and contractions, turns, etc), it would seem at least in theory that the suction required would be about the same.
I think this has something to do with a guy named Bernoulli.
I’m an engineer. You are complicating something that doesn’t need to be complicated.
If you do insist on doing this, I would suggest the Speedfil horizontal bottle up front in the bars. Mate the Speedfil tube with the fuelselage tube using a Y-connector (preferably with valves on each of the ingress tubes to regulate flow since suction pressure will be different). The result is one straw, with access to both fluid reservoirs. Not sure which problem this solves since you would have to flip the switch (which is almost as hard as picking up a different tube), but whatever…triathletes make the simplest things seem so difficult…
If you try to tie the two reservoirs together, with the BTA at a higher level than the shiv bladder you are going to run into a problem. The shiv bladder lid does a good job, but I wouldn’t call it air or water tight. The BTA bottle would just fill up the bladder till it was full, push up the lid and flow down the side of your nice frame.
I’ve found it works nice to have dense liquid nutrition in the bladder and a standard bottle BTA for hydration. The bladder works well to sip from, not to drown my thirst. The only time I’ve had to refill the bladder during a race was during IM, HIM or below I can get away with just one bladder full.
I really don’t get all the issues with the Fuelselage at all.
I’ve had my Shiv since June, and use the Fuelselage as my primary drinks source.
It fits in without issues.
The bite valve works perfect every time.
The magnet and straw stays put except on hard bumps where I just move back up.
I’m honestly at a loss to explain why others have issues.
What did I do different?
fitted Fuelselage as per the video
managed to get the straw to naturally angle out beside my right extension
cut straw and fitted bite valve just before extension bars angle up to ski
simply bite valve a bit whilst sucking and drink comes up easily.
Normally, I race with a full Fuelselage and a bottle on frame.
In a recent 70.3, I needed another bottle and had thoughts of binning my existing bottle, however started to refill Fuelselage on fly and found it fast and easy.
3 x tips later I’m full and bottle thrown and done, aero hydration the rest of Race.
It seems to be hit and miss for people.
I’d suggest getting the shiv and seeing if you can use the Fuelselage as I do and hopefully that solves your issue.
I also have a consideration to the torpedo mount bottle, and may do this in future as an extra or instead of frame mount.
Straw would be my main source though as find it works brilliantly.
Couple of extra details:
I’m on a small shiv
I’ve the aero bars at their lowest stack
straw reaches my mouth and a little room to lift up a bit but it doesn’t have any more length the way I cut it to mount to extension bar tidily.
I’m still struggling with the length of the straw. I have mine cut up to close to the bar-end shifters just because I’m a sissy and do not want to cut it too short and not be able to drink properly. I am wondering if the length that you cut it (around the level of the BTA cage) would be adequate to drink while riding comfortably. It would be best if you learn how to load a picture so that we can all learn from your set-up.
Ive had major issues with mine. I can’t seem to fill it with more than 300-400mls.
Firstly its hard to get down. I’ve tried to direct it, I’ve tried to push it down with long rulers etc, so it goes more vertically down and doesn’t bunch up.
I have added the profile yellow mesh stuff to “expand” the resevoir for easier filling (Does seem to make filling at speed a little easier)
I’ve just added the camel bak tube director to it, which was meant to be better at directing the bladder, as well as makes hands free drinking possible. (But this was an endless source of major frustration - let me know if you want more details on this)
In the end, my fueselage still won’t hold more than 400mls of fluid which won’t work well.
I have ironman Busselton in 3 weeks, and my hydration setup is pretty much a bottle between the arms, and a backup rear mounted bottle and my fueselage is pretty much just there for show. It holds the 400mls, and then its over.
I don’t really want to stop every half an hour to refill the bladder, but I guess that might be what happens. Overall, I’d like to just run a BTA and the fuselage.
Any ideas? (There are some cables routed down through the inside of the frame which makes me wonder whether the shop has done something and its getting caught on one of those cables - they weren’t exactly awesome in setting up my bike)
Make sure that you’re not folding it when you’re putting it in. If it goes in folded the bladder doesn’t open fully. I had some issues at first but have it dialed now. To install it I use the shaft off a golf club (cut the head of the club off) to push down the internal cable housing so that the bladder slides down into the down tube properly. Give that a go. FWIW I run the fuselage with water and a BTA bottle of concentrated nutrition for IM and it works perfectly, just a learning curve to figure out setup issues with the stupid bladder so keep with it.
So after much frustration, took it into the Specialized concept store in Adelaide, Australia (Bike society on Anzac hwy) and the guy there (Craig) was awesome. He fit a new bladder for me, and I was very skeptical at first, but he got it in no problems and filled it with almost 700mls of water right there and then. No silly little yellow profile mesh inside, and no tube director. No powder. Worked perfectly.
Which means that I am the retard.
But oh well, worked perfectly. He also drilled a small hole and took out the magnet from the housing plate so you can lift the seal without fear of the entire thing coming out. Big improvement.
Was drinking water happily all the way home from the store.
So for those having problems, either try again (A few technique points included making sure the tube is bent in a facilitating way when you insert it into the bladder sleeve bit) or go into your store.
Ok, a couple days later than planned but here’s pics of my straw setup.
Glad the above poster got sorted regarding fitting the actual bladder itself - does sound like some have this issue of not placing it in correctly to start with.
Once over that hump, it’s a case of ensuring the straw naturally angles towards the magnet mounting at desired length.
Mine rarely moves off the magnet only on heavy bumps, and even then just falls down slightly.
Shiv in Small, Lowest handlebar stack, I’m probably average in regards to flexibility/aero position.
I can drink comfortably from the straw in full aero and replace it easily.
The straw rarely moves due to the fact it is near taught when on magnet, there is a little bit of play I can pull straw a bit further out of bladder or push it down a bit.
I do this to keep straw quite horizontal and taught, and I think this ensures it moves very little and I have no issues.
This is perfect! I think I am able to do the same thing, except I have a BTA bottle cage around the area of where you installed the magnet. Nevertheless, I am sure I can make it work out. Thanks!
You are the ONLY person I have ever seen in any forum who has had zero problems with the Fuelselage. It is hard to get in, hard to get out, hard to drink from, hard to refill, hard to clean, and the magnet doesn’t hold the tube securely. I think I speak for hundreds of Shiv owners when I say, what are your secrets? Pics, videos, tips, drawings, please! IMO the Fuelselage is a great idea and a terrible product.
You are the ONLY person I have ever seen in any forum who has had zero problems with the Fuelselage. It is hard to get in, hard to get out, hard to drink from, hard to refill, hard to clean, and the magnet doesn’t hold the tube securely. I think I speak for hundreds of Shiv owners when I say, what are your secrets? Pics, videos, tips, drawings, please! IMO the Fuelselage is a great idea and a terrible product.
When you drink all fluid in bladder (in bike), the wet bladder sticks to itself. I can’t refill it in the bike. Blowing into the tube while refilling the wet bladder is difficult and super slow. How do you do that?
