Setting realistic pace goals for IM Lake Placid

Triathlon Forum
1

Lake Placid will be my first full IM. I did Eagleman 70.3 a couple years ago, and have done some Olympics, half-marathons, and one full marathon. I’m starting to think about goal paces/finish time, but am not quite sure what to target for the Placid course. Here are some of my times:

Eagleman 70.3 (2022): 5:10
Swim: 33:18
Bike: 2:46
Run: 1:40

Open Marathon (2023): 3:15

Some recent training times:

This weekend I ran 18 miles at an average pace of 7:35 on Saturday (average HR 147). Held back a little and just did 5 x 15 mins efforts at race pace (7:00 - 7:30). Legs were tired at 18, but probably could have pushed for a little longer. Sunday I biked 100 miles in 5:04 (average speed 19.7). Could have gone sub 5, but was slowing down at points through traffic and lights. Average heart rate was 145ish. Only 1.5k elevation though. I was pretty gassed after and not sure I could have run a good marathon after.

Comfortable swim pace in the pool has been around 1:35 /100 yards.

My biggest concern right now is putting together a good run after the Placid bike course. Average training hours per week has probably been around 10 hours. Just finished first block of my build period and finished my biggest week of 13 hours last week. I have felt like I’ve been absorbing the training very well and would train more if I had the time.

I would like to set an aggressive goal for Placid, but I realize it’s a very tough course. So, I want to set a smart, aggressive goal. I have about one more month of heavy training before tapering. I’m heading out to Placid to get a weekend of training in before the race soon, so I’m hoping this gives me some insight into my capabilities on the course.

2

I would look at how you placed relatively (%) in your age group at Eagleman, then look at Lake Placid past results, and see what splits it takes to get the same relative placement. That could give you an idea about how to pace yourself

3

My biggest concern right now is putting together a good run after the Placid bike course. Average training hours per week has probably been around 10 hours. Just finished first block of my build period and finished my biggest week of 13 hours last week. I have felt like I’ve been absorbing the training very well and would train more if I had the time.

I would like to set an aggressive goal for Placid, but I realize it’s a very tough course. So, I want to set a smart, aggressive goal. I have about one more month of heavy training before tapering. I’m heading out to Placid to get a weekend of training in before the race soon, so I’m hoping this gives me some insight into my capabilities on the course.

10 hours is pretty low for an IM and low volume and aggressive goals sound like a recipe for disaster! What is your goal time? I’ve read a very estimation is double the 70.3 time and add an hour to get your IM time, assuming all variables are the same/similar. I think I did 4.40 for a 70.3 and then 10.26 on the same course, with a flat. Take away the time taken to fix the flat it was almost exactly 2 x 70.3 + 1 hour. So maybe mid 11.3x would be a realistic goal perhaps?

4

True, last thing I want to happen is to blow up on the run or DNF. Sub 11:30 doesn’t sound like a bad goal.

5

True, last thing I want to happen is to blow up on the run or DNF. Sub 11:30 doesn’t sound like a bad goal.

Your 2023 3.15 marathon time suggests you’re in better run shape than when you did 1.40 in the 70.3 in 2022. So maybe sub 11 could be on the cards?

6

A good goal for a first ironman is to finish successfully and enjoy the experience. For the second Ironman worry about improving pace and time.

7

I think you should target more of a 8:30ish pace or slower on the run. It’s really a matter of running a hard 8:30 consistent pace overall or cracking up and running 9 and 10 min miles on the second half feeling like shit.

Lake Placid will be my first full IM. I did Eagleman 70.3 a couple years ago, and have done some Olympics, half-marathons, and one full marathon. I’m starting to think about goal paces/finish time, but am not quite sure what to target for the Placid course. Here are some of my times:
Eagleman 70.3 (2022): 5:10
Swim: 33:18
Bike: 2:46
Run: 1:40

Open Marathon (2023): 3:15

Some recent training times:

This weekend I ran 18 miles at an average pace of 7:35 on Saturday (average HR 147). Held back a little and just did 5 x 15 mins efforts at race pace (7:00 - 7:30). Legs were tired at 18, but probably could have pushed for a little longer. Sunday I biked 100 miles in 5:04 (average speed 19.7). Could have gone sub 5, but was slowing down at points through traffic and lights. Average heart rate was 145ish. Only 1.5k elevation though. I was pretty gassed after and not sure I could have run a good marathon after.

Comfortable swim pace in the pool has been around 1:35 /100 yards.

My biggest concern right now is putting together a good run after the Placid bike course. Average training hours per week has probably been around 10 hours. Just finished first block of my build period and finished my biggest week of 13 hours last week. I have felt like I’ve been absorbing the training very well and would train more if I had the time.

I would like to set an aggressive goal for Placid, but I realize it’s a very tough course. So, I want to set a smart, aggressive goal. I have about one more month of heavy training before tapering. I’m heading out to Placid to get a weekend of training in before the race soon, so I’m hoping this gives me some insight into my capabilities on the course.

8

Yeah, I’ve just been doing race pace stuff at open marathon times, unsure to if I would actually be able to do that in an IM. Should I continue to train at those times or should I start doing race pace stuff a little slower? Running 8:30s just feels so slow during training.

9

I don’t see the value of doing a ton of open marathon pace at this stage. Try doing 20 min swim, 4-5 bike ride on similar terrain as Lake Placid then do a 40-60 min run off the bike, that will give you an idea as to what it is a realistic IM marathon pace.

10

Your 70.3 times and marathon times look similar to mine. As does the 10 hour week.

What I found was that the 10 hours wasn’t anywhere near enough to get me into the ‘double your 70.3 time and add an hour’ range… 10 hours has never prepared me for the full IM distance, and thus my full IM times have all been well above 12 hours… :frowning:

11

10-12 hrs per week got me to be able to race 127.5 miles and then had to slog through the last half marathon. It wasn’t until I was riding much more that I could attempt to race the whole race.

Your other challenge is that this is the first race which is not to be taken lightly. Like me, you are liable (almost certain) to make some decision that seemed smart at the time but, in hindsight, was catastrophically stupid. Mine was that on my 3nd IM, I was feeling so good that I didn’t believe that my HR monitor was giving me the correct readings (seemed too easy of an effort for the HR I was putting out) so I went harder and promptly blew up 50 miles later. It still baffles me that to this day that, considering all the the possible reasons ie taper, early in race, etc., i came up with that one. I was such a dumbass.

Your bike has a good possibility to be over 6.5 given the widely varying terrain as it is no joke at Placid. For example I rode all my hillier IM (LP, tremblant, chattanooga) btw 5:55-615 over the past 7 years (peak IM build riding about 7 hr/week) but rode MD at 5:10 in 2022 (peak IM build riding was a little over 10h/week). For reference, I can do a flat Half bike around 2:26.
so to play my favorite guessing game…my guess is. . .
swim 1:06-1:08
bike: 6:30-40
Run: 3:50-4 hr (you are about 15’ faster than me on mary but I think the ride is going to take more of a toll d/t the limited bike training)
Transition 10’ total?

Please let us know how it goes

12

Congrats on taking the step from a half to a full IM. We used to live in Maryland, so I’m very familiar with the Eagleman course. Also, for 7 years in a row I ran a 3:14 at Boston, so I think that I understand your marathon pace. Finally, I’ve done IMLP 24 times, so I know the course like the back of my hand.

I have a few questions for you and a few suggestions. First, is your 3:15 on a flat course like Chicago or is it on a hilly course like Boston?

The swim in LP should not be a problem at all. It’s a lot smoother in Mirror Lake than the Choptank River.

For the bike, Eagleman is flat as a pancake and LP has about 4,500 feet of climbing per loop. Thus, there is a big difference. Also, in the morning, the winds are mild but on the second loop of the bike, the winds normally pick up by about 5-10mph. Second question is where do you live? In Maryland, we would go ride on Skyline Drive in Virginia or to Gambrill State Park in Frederick, MD to ride the hills. Hopefully, you have some hills to train on.

For the run, once again Eagleman is flat and LP has a few inclines. Nothing major, but when you can “run” up a hill in 3 minutes, it takes about 8 minutes doing the “Ironman shuffle”. When I was younger and ran the 3:14 pace, my best run time in LP was 3:39, which is exactly 26 minutes longer than my race pace marathon time, or 1 minute per mile slower. If you can run a sub 3:40 IM Marathon, you’ll be flying by about 90% of the athletes.

As far as a “Finish Time”, my fastest with everything clicking was 10:52. It’s always challenging trying to set a “realistic” time, versus an “optimistic” time. Since this is your first IM and your first time on the Lake Placid course, I think that you are looking at 12 hours, plus or minus an hour. About the worst thing that you can do is think along the lines of "I wanted to swim in 1:10 and my swim was 1:16, so now I need to go faster on the bike to make up the 6 minutes. No, no, hell no. Take what the course gives you but don’t chase a magical time.

My biggest suggestion is to get to Lake Placid as early as possible to scout the course. If you can ride some of the hills, it will help you visualize during the race. Second suggestion is to put something in your Bike Personal Needs Bag. I’ve seen hundreds of peeps that don’t get enough energy and they really crash hard on the second loop of the bike. Third and most importantly is to “have fun”.

I’m heading up to Lake Placid on July 1st and would be more than happy to meet up with you for a ride.

13

Just in terms of the recovery cost, it’s a bad idea to be doing 18mi runs at open marathon pace. I would slow down and try and adapt to the bio mechanics of running a slower pace, practicing the nutrition and hydration plan etc.

Yeah, I’ve just been doing race pace stuff at open marathon times, unsure to if I would actually be able to do that in an IM. Should I continue to train at those times or should I start doing race pace stuff a little slower? Running 8:30s just feels so slow during training.

14

Omg!!!’
Could you please use metric system?
Like normal people do!!!

1.30 min /dicks swim :slight_smile:

15

Thank you for the advice! The marathon I ran was completely flat. I think at my current fitness level I could potentially go sub-3 on the same course. For running, there is not any elevation I can train on. However, for the bike, I’ve been trying to ride south from where I am to train on some elevation. My ride two weekends ago was 80 miles with 3,600 ft of elevation. Average speed was 18.7 mph at 144 HR (no power meter outside). I plan on doing as much elevation as possible on my weekend long rides.

I will be in Placid with my training buddy the weekend of June 15th and would be down to meet up if you are out there at that time! I’m assuming you’re racing Placid this year since you’ve done 24 and I’m pretty sure this is the 25th anniversary.

16

My course was 1500 bananas height and it was hot that day. It was 550 noses hot.

Metric people!!!metric please

17

My course was 1500 bananas height and it was hot that day. It was 550 noses hot.

Metric people!!!metric please
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