I have been swimming 10-14 km per week over the last 2 years and while I am improving, it happens slowly. I am considering ramping up my swim volume significantly but need to make sure I avoid shoulder injury and that I have time to work, bike, run and have some non-tri activities also
Therefore, I am wondering about how much long course AG triathletes that spend a serious amount on time swim per week, how long a typical mainset is and how frequent you swim. Ideally from triathletes without a swimming back ground to not distort with “high school fishes” that can stay fast with a couple of 2-3km sessions per week.
In other words:
– what is your weekly volume in terms of TIME spend in the pool?
– how many days per week do you swim?
– do you have short days, recovery days and long days or do you always spend more or less the same time in the pool?
I looked at the october swim tread but there is a lot of variance. This is what I plan to do:
– swim ~10 hours per week (vs ~5-6 currently)
– swim 5-7 days depending on how I feel and what my agenda allows
– have a least 4 sessions of 2 hours (which for me probably translate into 5000 meters for those sessions) and the remaining 1-3 sessions 1-3 kms depending on how I feel and time available.
This would translate roughly into 22-24 km per week vs 10-14 currently.
I’m not serious but have had some pretty good results (in the swim leg of the triathlon only unfortunately!).
In 2001 I was swimming at 2:00 per 100m
I swam with little intent or improvement for a few years.
From 2003-2006 I swam AT LEAST three times a week: 2 x 60 minutes and 1 x 90 minutes. I’d guess it came in at 10-12km/week.
Perhaps I swam a fourth set every second week. That 4th set was either 10x400 or 1x4000m (LCM).
From this, I managed a 20:10 in Olympic and 49:?? in IM.
The IM swim was most likely short but I came out of the water in 39th place (Including male and female Pros).
Now, I swim about 3-5km per week and can go about 22:?? in Olympic and can hold 1:35/100m in the pool without too much difficulty.
I wish I had more time on my hands. I’d like to get back to my 2006 form!
What is frustrating when trying to glean information like this regarding swimming is that many fast swimmers in triathlon come from a swim background and can be incredibly fast in what would be considered minimal training.
In January of 2012 I could not tread water at the deep end of a pool.
I began to swim 2-3k a week for six months, which improved me to a 28:00 ply (first tri ever). had no idea what to do in the water, just swam until i got bored 2-3 times a week.
this past year i read up, got advice, and started doing sets. this past summer i put in somewhere between 10-12k a week and i can now swim high 23s/low 24s. Not great, but I’m still learning. I’m a mid 23mph cyclist/37-38 10k guy so this winter I really plan on focusing on the swim and would like to get down to 21-22. I plan on averaging between 15-20k a week. i also have an ex all big ten swimmer semi coaching me which helps. i’m learning all the different strokes (can only do freestyle right now) and she’s teaching how actually get faster in the pool.
What is frustrating when trying to glean information like this regarding swimming is that many fast swimmers in triathlon come from a swim background and can be incredibly fast in what would be considered minimal training.
DING DING DING We have a Winner!
I’ve seen athletes take 10 years out of the water hope in and go 10 min flat for 825 yards. (former olympian) I’ve seen another swim 3x about 1200 each then bang out 70x100 on 1:40 (former olympian) I’ve seen former AG and college swimmers take 2-8 years out of the water, swim < 50k and then go do an IM swim in <58 min.
I’ve seen adult onset swimmers put in 750k yards in a year and not crack 33 for a half swim. Then do it again the next year and still not crack 33 although they did crack 34. I’ve seen adult onset swimmers swim for 10 years and then the college swimmer gets in for 2 weeks and starts to destroy them in the pool.
To the OP:
When I was racing, and I swam AG swimming for a few years, I put in about 15k in 4 swims. That netted me mid 26’s for a half. When I upped it to 18-20k after a month or 6 weeks I was in the high 25’s. After about a quarter of a year of that, I was in the very high 24’s and even lead out of the water at a few races overall.
I looked at the october swim tread but there is a lot of variance. This is what I plan to do:
– swim ~10 hours per week (vs ~5-6 currently)
– swim 5-7 days depending on how I feel and what my agenda allows
– have a least 4 sessions of 2 hours (which for me probably translate into 5000 meters for those sessions) and the remaining 1-3 sessions 1-3 kms depending on how I feel and time available.
I’m not trying to derail the thread, and I’m not a good enough swimmer to qualify to answer your question. But, didn’t you just post in another thread that you were planning on cycling 10-12 hours per week? If you bike 10-12, swim 10 and then add running you’re looking at close to 30 hours per week. I’m not saying you can’t do that, but that’s A LOT of work and I know you’ve been posting about trying to KQ. My advice would be to not focus too much on one discipline and forget about the total training load. Swimming is the easiest to recover from, but swimming 10 hours a week will affect your cycling and running (and if I remember correctly you said you’re in the southern hemisphere so you’re coming into your season so you’re not talking about an off-season swim focus). From a KQ perspective, think about what’s going to give YOU the best chance to qualify. Is that 10 hours in the pool every week? How will 10 hours a week in the pool affect your cycling and running?
I’m not saying you shouldn’t work on the swim. I’m just saying that you shouldn’t forget about the total training load. Find the right balance that’s going to minimize your weaknesses and also allow you to race to your strengths.
Anyway, I’m not trying to derail the thread and since I’m always trying to improve my swim I always like hearing what better swimmers are doing.
I coach a masters swim team that is mostly triathletes and we focus on getting better at distance freestyle / open water swimming. I coach beginning AG triathletes to AG Kona qualifers to Pro Kona qualifiers.
Here are some questions for you:
What is your current pace per 100m in the pool?
Do you swim SCM(short course meters - 25) or LCM(long course meters - 50)?
How do you currently train in the pool in terms of the variety of sets you do?
Do you swim sets on an interval or a rest interval?
Do you swim alone or on a team?
When did you start swimming?
In terms of what we do, for the AG triathletes I have 5 practices a week. Most of the good AGs that I coach average about 4x a week in the pool. The workouts are anywhere from 1 to 1.5 hours and 2500 yards to 5000 yards and average about 12k-15k yards a week depending on what we are doing. I tend to push a lot of intensity since we don’t have much time in the water and stroke technique is usually still developing. For the AG Kona qualifiers and pros, they swim 6x a week and average about 20k-25k a week.
If you want to see the results of an athlete from the program, you can find it here. It is an analysis of swim results from an AG Kona qualifier and the progress he made. Like you, he plateaued from his first time in Kona and I started working with him about 2.5 months ago. If you want to see the workouts we do, I post them all here.
The issue with a shoulder injury is something to consider. Be careful on how quickly you ramp up and a shoulder injury with that volume, while not a lot of volume, is still a possibility depending on your stroke technique. Stretch cord / strength work will help with injury prevention.
I looked at the october swim tread but there is a lot of variance. This is what I plan to do:
– swim ~10 hours per week (vs ~5-6 currently)
– swim 5-7 days depending on how I feel and what my agenda allows
– have a least 4 sessions of 2 hours (which for me probably translate into 5000 meters for those sessions) and the remaining 1-3 sessions 1-3 kms depending on how I feel and time available.
I’m not trying to derail the thread, and I’m not a good enough swimmer to qualify to answer your question. But, didn’t you just post in another thread that you were planning on cycling 10-12 hours per week? If you bike 10-12, swim 10 and then add running you’re looking at close to 30 hours per week. I’m not saying you can’t do that, but that’s A LOT of work and I know you’ve been posting about trying to KQ. My advice would be to not focus too much on one discipline and forget about the total training load. Swimming is the easiest to recover from, but swimming 10 hours a week will affect your cycling and running (and if I remember correctly you said you’re in the southern hemisphere so you’re coming into your season so you’re not talking about an off-season swim focus). From a KQ perspective, think about what’s going to give YOU the best chance to qualify. Is that 10 hours in the pool every week? How will 10 hours a week in the pool affect your cycling and running?
I’m not saying you shouldn’t work on the swim. I’m just saying that you shouldn’t forget about the total training load. Find the right balance that’s going to minimize your weaknesses and also allow you to race to your strengths.
Anyway, I’m not trying to derail the thread and since I’m always trying to improve my swim I always like hearing what better swimmers are doing.
Supersquid,
Thanks a lot for the push. You are absolutely correct and that is why i posted. I wanted to get a feel for how much serious swimmers do. I do need to find the right balance and 10 hours per week might be too much. I probably have to get a basic structure in place and then do a bit of trial and error.
I’m “serious” but just a weak swimmer in general. I started swimming 2012 so I’m pretty new. Do about 6K-7K a week just cause I feel my time is better spent on the bike and the run. I get about 28-29 min Olympic and a 38 min HIM swims. I’m usually tops on the bike, upper-middle on the run, and slow on the swim in races.
My swim has gotten faster this year though… I used to do 20x100yd intervals at around 1:43/100yd pace but this past few months it went down 1:35/100yd pace… I think I finally hit a stride in my swim and seeing good improvements.
I consider myself “serious.” I am also an “adult onset” swimmer. I learned to swim about 6 years ago when I started triathlon. 58 min swim at IMFL (wetsuit) and 30 min at Vegas 70.3 WCs (non wetsuit).
I swim 3 sessions a week year round @ 3.5k avg per session. I’d love to swim more but … something has to give lol. Basically, i swim a speed day, long set day, and a technique (mixed) day each week.
What is your current pace per 100m in the pool? I can usually do 15x100 on 1:55 coming in at 1:42 or so. Some days when I am tired it becomes intervals on 2 mins. When I feel really good it is 1:55 but coming in at 1:40.
Do you swim SCM(short course meters - 25) or LCM(long course meters - 50)? SCM. Do not have access to 50 min pools
How do you currently train in the pool in terms of the variety of sets you do? I usually have a long session (90 min) at about race pace with short rest (~5 secs) between what ever reps I do. Sometimes it is 100m repeats, sometimes it is latters and sometimes X x 600-800m. Then I have a shorter session where the mainset is a bunch of 50-100m repeats at hard effort with 15-20 sec rest. Then a tempo session with 100s and 200s at around threshold with medium rest. Also do quite some of the reps with paddle and buyo. Remaining sessions of the week are usually something like a 2 km mainset of what ever I feel like and/or recovery 30 min swim.
Do you swim sets on an interval or a rest interval? On intervals.
Do you swim alone or on a team? My work agenda is a bit complicated so 80% of the time alone. That is one of the things I want to change so at least it becomes 50% with a masters group.
When did you start swimming? March 2011
Tim,
Thanks a lot. I am going to read the links you posted. Pls see answers to your questions above.
Solid improvement by Matt Hansson. I am probably where he was in 2011. I have swum 1:06 and :07 if I remember correct in my last 2 IMs (March and May 2013) but with wetsuit in both.
From what I gather is that 10-12 km and 4 times per week (which is roughly what I used to do) is maintaining or at best providing marginal improvements. To become competitive overall and in the swim leg, 20-24 km per week is the norm. I will try to ramp up and see if I can get close to 20 km. Might be a bit too ambitious as I also want to become stronger on the bike but if I do not try, I will not know.
I used to swim 6-9k a week. Last fall I started doubling my volume, and eventually got up to swimming hard 6x per week. So, I’d say I’ve averaged 16-20k a week for the last year.
The improvement has been striking. Like you, I was improving slowly on my old volume. Once doubled I swam 58:30 at IM CdA (previous best there: 1:03) and then 58:50 at Kona (previous best: 1:04). I think I’ve dropped 10sec/100 in training scy during this time. 10x100 on 1:30 at 1:20/100 used to kill me, did 40x100 on my birthday and it was easy.
I think that each person has a volume point where the gains start happening. For me once I got the feel for the water the gains started coming quickly.
I consider myself “serious.” I am also an “adult onset” swimmer. I learned to swim about 6 years ago when I started triathlon. 58 min swim at IMFL (wetsuit) and 30 min at Vegas 70.3 WCs (non wetsuit).
I swim 3 sessions a week year round @ 3.5k avg per session. I’d love to swim more but … something has to give lol. Basically, i swim a speed day, long set day, and a technique (mixed) day each week.
Ghez… 58 min IM swim and you’re an adult onset swimmer?..
Did you “just” swim more or did you do other stuff like specific technique work, changed your workout structure, started to use or not use paddles and buyo and band? I am just trying to figure out if it was “just” more volume or other stuff too.
actually, I started to use paddles and bouy more, almost exclusively. lots of band work too. and hard sets with a good swimmer.
but for me, my weaknesses were “feel” for the water and legs too low. So, band and paddles helped with that. I’d say that for anyone like us in the 1:05 range trying to get better that band and paddles and bouy should be the only tools you use.
Think what Sutton did with Chrissie Wellington.
Eric,
Did you “just” swim more or did you do other stuff like specific technique work, changed your workout structure, started to use or not use paddles and buyo and band? I am just trying to figure out if it was “just” more volume or other stuff too.
My 3 girls swim competitively, and I try to emulate many of their tecniques and ethic into my swimming. I also have a swim coach (Elli Overton, Aussy Olympian) work with me to fine tune every few months. As I said, I take it seriously, and try to make every stroke count … esp with my low volume.
Swimming for the sake of swimming isn’t going to do as much as becoming a better swimmer. I was never a swimmer until I got into triathlon, did the 10-14KM a week thing for a few years with little improvement. Did 12 weeks of focused 1:1 lessons with a swim coach and now swim roughly 4.5-6.5KM a week and went from 1:50/100M in 70.3 to low 1:30s/100M
What is frustrating when trying to glean information like this regarding swimming is that many fast swimmers in triathlon come from a swim background and can be incredibly fast in what would be considered minimal training.
^^
That. I swam in High School, took a 30 year break and slowly got back into the swim of things with 3xweek swim workouts. Basic stuff like 10x100s, 5x200s, ladders,etc. my goal, after a break in period so as not to destroy my shoulders, was to equal an IM distance for every workout. That got me to a :52 at IMLP. This year, in January I upped it to 5 days a week for an average of 20-25k per week. I swam a :22:09 at Rev3 Quassy, and another :52 at IMLP. The :52 this year was by far much easier than last year’s swim of the same time.
