With the new rolling swim starts, could someone theoretically seed themselves say, 10 minutes slower in the swim than they are capable of swimming, swimming the 2.4 at whatever pace they normally would, and then having a few extra hundred bikes to slingshot off?
I won’t be doing that as I feel it’s dishonest (I swear), but I am willing to bet there are a few who may. Doesn’t seem like it would be technically illegal, but there is a noticeable advantage when passing riders and using the legal slingshot and I am sure one could save a few minutes on an IM ride. What’s the ST hive think?
Seems like a bad idea. Speaking as somebody who’s a lot better at cycling than swimming, you don’t get that much benefit slingshotting past slower riders, and any benefit you do get tends to be more than offset by how congested the roads are. Depends on the course, flat courses with wide roads aren’t so much of a problem, but any course with hills and/or narrow roads can be a real pain.
Seems like a bad idea. Speaking as somebody who’s a lot better at cycling than swimming, you don’t get that much benefit slingshotting past slower riders, and any benefit you do get tends to be more than offset by how congested the roads are. Depends on the course, flat courses with wide roads aren’t so much of a problem, but any course with hills and/or narrow roads can be a real pain.
^^ This. The difference between my swimming and my biking means that I get this effect in any tri, whether I like it or not. I don’t think it helps much. Although you’re passing people all the time, you also have to be on constant watch for erratic riding, and you’re essentially stuck in no man’s land all the time, with no idea about your placing. It’s a blind TT rather than a race. In a du I bike after running instead, and it’s a completely different experience, much more like a race. Less traffic, but more motivating.
I do this every race; it’s called being a bad swimmer, and while I do slingshot off a few folks, most are going so slow as to make the exercise more of a hazard than a help. On the very few occasions where I sniffed the front of the race I enjoyed having open road in front of me.
They had this at my first tri in Boulder last weekend. I started at the back (timer chip starts your time only when you start your swim). The back was too slow, but at least I had room to swim. Psychologically, it was a boost to be passing people on the bike and run vs the other way around.
I thought about this, but in LP there is zero advantage. The first 30 minutes of riding there is a lot of climbing, so no advantage. Then you have the Keene descent that can be 40-45 mph. It is much more calm on an open road than when it is clogged with riders. Most of the time I have done IMLP in the past I have been on the bike around 65 to 66 min including a long transition and that has given me a clear shot out of town and to the Keene ascent. I’m slow enough on the swim that transition is getting a bit clogged up, but also fast enough in transition to almost pass 100 people in transition. So for me, I’ll start right where I should. I don’t want to start ahead of my speed and get in people’s way on the swim, but I don’t want to start behind and have to deal with too many people heading out of town (where there is limited slingshot) and then deal with a lot of people on the Keene descent.
But for some other races if they are totally flat, then it seems like it would be a bit of an advantage…but it can be a disadvantage too (just like starting in a late wave) and dodging a ton of swimmers and bikers.
I always found my best results overall were when I was swimming my fastest because I was coming out of the water with faster bikers for the most part so I pushed it harder on the bike…and came off the bike higher up which meant I also had to go harder on the run to maintain or go higher in the placings…
I do this every race; it’s called being a bad swimmer, and while I do slingshot off a few folks, most are going so slow as to make the exercise more of a hazard than a help. On the very few occasions where I sniffed the front of the race I enjoyed having open road in front of me.
This. Welcome to my life.
The ONLY race I’ve ever done, where the slingshot draft benefit outweighed the risk/hassle of dealing with sketchy slower riders, was at Demi Esprit in MTL.
I had the crappiest swim ever at IMLP '11, and got to “enjoy” passing over 2k people on the bike.
I woulda preferred not to have to do that. I cannot recommend it as something anyone would want to do. Ever.
A bunch of us did Timberman '09, which was a huge race with like a dozen waves, maybe more. It sucked ROYAL on the bike, getting stuck behind slow riders on climbs, descents, etc.
None of us has ever done that event again.
YMMV.
Hi, it’s been awhile. Are you doing Lake Placid this year? I’m starting to feel like an “old guy” because there are only 4 of us who have done every Ironman in Lake Placid.
Last year in the Augusta 70.3 I went off in one of the very last waves. By the time I got to the bike I felt like I was getting somewhat of a slingshot effect and ended up with with a ridiculous bike split. At the same time I felt like I was having to scream “on your left” the whole time to get people to move over. I’ve always enjoyed being towards the front with less traffic than having to work through the waves where people are going 15-17 mph and swerving up hills.
Sorry, but passing waves of bikes through the first half of a HIM really sucks. At the HIM I’m doing in August, I have memories from 6 years ago the least tiem I did it of being stuck behind packs drafting off cars. Not only did that hold me up, but it’s illegal and dangerous and takes away from the whole point of the sport… you against the clock and you competitors. This year I debated back and forth and finally decided to register in the elite division to be clear of the traffic. I don’t think I’m fast enough to be on the podium, but at least won’t embarass myself. I’ll get to race how I usually train. Mostly all alone, out on the open road.
Some of my scariest moments on a bike are always passing slower cyclists from earlier waves… usually not staying to the right. It’s really fun near the end of the bike leg if there’s a 50mph downhill, with a close competitor chasing just 20 yards back and you’re in the aerobars passing someone sitting up, clearly scared, going <40mph in the middle of the road and have to pass on the left right up against the double yellow… all the while screaming at the top of your lungs “on the left”. Great stuff… kicks up the adrenaline going into T2.
TriTalk did an episode on this way back. I don’t know what kind of cred David Warden gets on ST but he found that a close competitor of his did better by starting later (in an age group start) versus his earlier start in an elite wave. He accounted for that increase in performance with the continual draft of passing so many riders.
I seem to be the only one that ever found this to be an advantage. My first IM at IMFL I was decidedly mediocre in the swim and came out in 1:19. I passed over 500 people on the bike and found it to be a pretty good help, both in terms of the legal draft and the psychological boost it gave.
It wasn’t that I seeded myself lower, it was that I swam slowly. I’d think getting stuck with slower swimmers would just get to be a PITA. In fact I may seed myself with faster swimmers in a rolling IM start so I could be dropped and swim in more open water.