SCUBA Divers, BC question

The Coffee Shop
1

Any preferences with respect to Jacket style or Back/wing style BCs? I’ve only ever used jacket style, but I’m thinking about a new BC and I’ve heard there are some advantages (freedom of movement, more easier to use multiple tanks, etc) to a wing style. After some recent diving in Guam, I’m maybe looking to jump start my diving again, so I’d appreciate any input on this or other recent new equipment stuff. I haven’t bought any new gear in 10 years, so my mask, snorkel, fins, etc are all that old. If there’s anything new that is worth looking at, let me know.

Thanks.

2

Slimy polliwog. You just need a UDT vest and a pony bottle and you’re good to go. Go with the wing. Are you diving with a single tank or do you want to go with a twin setup? Check your D-rings and your hose length and make sure you don’t get anything with too much emergency lift. It’s a hell of a thing, for a number of reasons, to be down several atmospheres and all of a sudden finding yourself staring at blue sky.

T.

3

If there’s anything new that is worth looking at, let me know.

Dive computers are now available as built into your mask. Kinda cool.

4

I highly recommend the back/wing style BC over the jacket. They tend to keep you more level u/w as well as what you mentioned. This is particularly more noticeable on the cold water drysuit/twin tank wreck diving that we do in the Great Lakes but I also much prefer them on the warm water reef diving you’ll be doing in Guam.

I use wing style for both cold and warm water diving but my dive equipment is a few years old so I won’t make a recomendation. Also look at the newer masks as the have much more peripheral vision.

There are a number of equipment review sites to google. Here’s one that comes to mind. http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/2009/04/14-new-bcs-for-local-diving-tropical-diving-or-both

5

I’ve used both, they function the same. It is 99.9999% marketing just so someone can differentiate their product. People claiming buoyancy benefits etc etc should just work on perfecting their buoyancy/breathing not buying new gear.

If you’re even contemplating becoming a divemaster/instructor, get the jacket style because you won’t be able to teach with the wing-type.

6

“People claiming buoyancy benefits etc etc should just work on perfecting their buoyancy/breathing not buying new gear.”

I was a DM/assistant instructor with a couple thousand dives and I’m calling you out on this one. If you’re strictly a warm water weenie diver you’ll definately notice it a lot less, but in cold water with heavier weights and more bouyant 7mm wetsuits or dry suits there is a very noticeable difference. You’ll still notice a difference in warm water albiet less obvious.

Why can’t you teach with a wing style? I can see the simplicity of using the jacket in the pool, but what if your open water dives are in the cold Great Lakes.

You must be PADI. :slight_smile:

I was PADI and now regard them as a bit of a joke. If you really want to do it right go with these guys. You’ll note that they are strong advocates of the rear wing system.

http://www.gue.com/Equipment/Config/index.html

?

7

What cerveloguy said. Get a backplate and wing system. Backplates can be made by anyone, don’t need Halcyon. Wings, Halcyon, Deep Sea Supply, Oxycheq all make good wings.

Extremely comfortable, feels like you are not wearing anything.

Buoyancy is better (IMO, about 400 dives in a jacket style, about 600 in a BP and wing). THe BP is actually part of your weight system, and places weight directly over your lungs. With a steel BP I use 8# on a weight belt in a drysuit. #4 in a 7 mil wetsuit.

Modular - I have an aluminum BP for warm water and a steel BP for cold water. Harness (which is replaceable for about $20), is fully adjustable, same system for wetsuits/drysuits.

Streamlined. Not all that crap hanging off you.

I would never go back to a jacket style, or even a back inflate

I know plenty of guys in So Cal that teach and DM (even for PADI) in a BP/Wing

8

I was a Naui instructor and have somewhere more than 1500 dives, mostly wreck diving in NC and warm water liveaboards(quit logging years ago). I have about 500 on a jacket style and 900 on a Zeagle ranger back inflation. Bought a backplate and wing last year cause it looked cool. Very comfortable once you get it adjusted correctly. Position in the water is very similar to the back inflation but options for weight placement. It just seems like a have more freedom with the backplate. YMMV.

9

I’m just doing recreational diving for now. No instructing or advanced diving anytime soon. I just don’t have the time to dive enough for that. So, the choices are, jacket style, back inflation, or back plate with a wing. I think, for now, and for the sake of simplicity, I’ll stick to something pre-rigged. Unlike with bikes, I don’t have the time or interest level quite yet to learn about all the possible equipment configurations and pros/cons of each type of o-ring or setup. It sounds like either back inflation or jacket are going to be just fine, but maybe a back inflation will work better longer term if I dive a lot more or get better.

Any other gear choices I should look at after 10 years? New fins or mask? Buy my own computer?

10

I’ve been a Scuba Instructor (PADI) since 1990. I have probably close to 5000 hours underwater. Most of which in the last 12 years in cold water with vulcanized rubber (NOKIA and VIKING) and compressed neoprene drysuits (DUI). Almost all of my teaching and fun diving is with a Zeagle Ranger and negatively bouyant HP steel tanks. (I prefer a 65cf tank for teaching) I have found it to be completely reliable, comfortable and meets demanding expectations. I also love the incorporated weight system. I also have a stripped down version for warm water diving (no incorporated weights) I love them both especially the fact that when inflated neither the back or wing type squeeze you. Good luck and have fun!

11

"New fins or mask? Buy my own computer? "

Yes, yes and yes. Especially the dive computer if you don’t have one.

12

“Especially the dive computer”

Any recommendations? I don’t need anything too complicated. Just good quality and easy to use.

13

Back plate and wing. Besides what everybody else has said, it is WAY more solid on your back. No more tank flopping around from side to side.

I would advise not buying a BC until you’ve had a chance to try a back plate and wing. I think you’ll like it.

Also, get an actual back plate similar to the Halcyon http://www.extreme-exposure.com/?q=node/99 as opposed to say a Zeagle Ranger (or similar) http://www.zeagleexpress.com/gear/BCDS/Zeagle%20BCDs/Ranger%20LTD%20CLOSE-OUT.html. The metal back plate is what makes it so solid feeling. Simple and clean works nicely for all kinds of diving.

Enjoy.

14

Seriously, backplates and wings started with tech divers, so it seems “techy” and “advanced”, but they are very common among recreational divers. Most people that try them believe they are superior. I know of only one person that bought one then went back to jacket style.

There is absolutely zero learning curve with the equipment configurations, and a BP/W is actually simpler than most other BCs. You can buy them completely assembled. If you are diving warm water and don’t use much weight, you can get an aluminum plate. Cold water with drysuit or 7 mil, get a stainless steel. Unless you are going to be diving doubles, a 30# or so pound lift wing is all you need for most recreational diving.

Usually the advice is, if you are going to keep diving, get the backplate and wing now. Otherwise, buy a jacket or back inflate and then spend more money buying the BP/W.

I went from a back inflate Seaquest to a BP/W about 5 years ago, best decision I made in equipment. If you want to ask any questions, feel free to PM me and I can steer you in the right direction.

As long as your mask and fins are in good shape, no need to replace them. Check the straps.

Computer, definitely. The Suunto Vyper is an excellent choice. If you are EANx certified make sure you get a compatible computer (or get one anyway and then get certified).

ETA - WOW those extreme exposure Halcyon prices are insane. $720??? Yes, get a solid backplate, but don’t pay for the Halcyon name (I have a halcyon BP and have had two Halcyon wings, currently dive a Deep Sea Supply wing https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?&page=rig_configurator )

15

As previously mentioned, my stuff is a few years old and I don’t dive nearly as much as I used to. Let’s go back to the original home page gear review on the url I sent earlier and you’ll find good reviews on all dive gear - masks, fins, computer, BC’s, etc.

http://www.scubadiving.com/gear

One thing that makes me smile - you’re in the navy. You don’t know anybody to ask at work? Thought there might be the odd SEAL around:-)

16

“One thing that makes me smile - you’re in the navy. You don’t know anybody to ask at work? Thought there might be the odd SEAL around”

Plenty of guys at work, but SEALs aren’t really the right guys to ask about rec gear, usually. I work with a bunch of EOD and SEAL types, and most of them don’t dive much outside of work.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I’ll look around and see what I can find at the local shops.

17

I wish i knew this before I went through about 3 sets of gear before arriving where I am now. What I didn’t realise when I started was that this is life support equipment and it is a false economy to go cheap. I now do a lot of pretty long deco/mixed gas/exploration diving etc so I have a little experience. I am not a DIR convert, I just pick and choose what actually works. It just so happens that a lot of what the DIR crowd say actually works.

Get a halcyon backplate and harness. The most simple, basic, no frills setup you can get. No extra straps, clips or other shit. Get it set up properly by someone who knows what they are doing. Get a halcyon eclipse wing, it is simple and the best for a single tank. Don’t get anything covered in bungee cord, straps or clips.

The advantage is if you want to dive with twins, you just have to buy another wing.

As for regs, there are heaps of good ones out there. I prefer the Apeks ATX100. Not the most expensive, very reliable and work brilliantly for even the most extreme dives.

18

Ok, looking at backplates and wings, vs something like the Aeris 5 Oceans. The 5 Oceans is a multipurpose (warm or cold water) integrated BC with back inflation. Tester’s Choice and Best Buy for 2009 for SCUBA LAB.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two options? Some basic price shopping looks like the 5 Ocean’s is significantly cheaper than a backplate, Eclipse wing, and straps, etc. I assume the backplate/wing is basically more adaptable over time?

19

Do you have a budget for this? The reason I ask is that if you have limited $ you want to spend here I’d get something like the Aeris and a computer over just a BP and wing. I can’t even imagine diving without a computer. Actually I don’t think I have.

That Aeris looks nice for the price. Only $400 at Leisure Pro, but under $500 at retail. That’s just over half what a Ranger costs.

But all the cool kids are using BPs.

20

A word about tester’s choice and all that, and the scubadiving.com reference by cerveloguy… the backplate manufacturers don’t do a lot of advertising in Scubadiving mag… you won’t find many reviews of backplate systems for that reason.

I am sure the Aeris is a fine BC. But honestly, looking at it, looks like you are wearing a frigging comforter. just my opinion.

Don’t get hung up on Halcyon and they’re the only ones that “DIR” (do it right). They do it well, but they simply adopted cave diving techniques and equipment and translated them to recreational diving. Some of those ideas are genius, i.e., the bungee’d second, the longer primary hose. Some are just “rules” , i.e., no steel tanks and wetsuits, that don’t really apply to recreational diving.

Again, I’d recommend Deep Sea Supply for a local (So Cal) manufacturer. You can even call and get Tobin, the owner, on the phone. He helped me choose which wing to buy. As for warm water/cold water versatility, I have dived my steel backplate in everything from 45 degree water in a drysuit in British Columbia to 75 degree water in a 7 mil in Galapagos to 80 degree wter in a skin in Maui.

The primary benefits of the BP/W are that it puts you in a better position in the water and reduces your overall need for weight. Yes, you can get good buoyancy with a back inflate or a jacket, but think about where the weights are placed (around your hips) vs. the two primary repositories of air (the BC’s bladder and your lungs). You are automatically at a disadvantage since the weight is lower than the air, causing you to fight a heads up trim. Backplate puts 6# of weight right over those air sources, alloing for perfect horizontal trim (the most efficient position). Also, even with a back inflate, traditional BCs tend to “trap” air. A wing does not. When I went to a BPW I automatically dropped about 3 pounds of ballast. Add the 6# for the steel BP, that’s 9# off the weight belt/pouches out of the gate. Diving in California, that’s important. Add a steel tank and it’s even better. I think I mentioned, but with a steel tank and BP, I wear a 10# weight belt with a drysuit. That’s nothing.

With regards to weight, if you are diving California, wearing a 10# weight belt is safer (IMO) than a 30+# weight belt (or pouches, or harness) if you ever have to ditch, you won’t be a rocket to the surface.

Anyway, you are in SD? If you want I can find out some BP friendly shops to go look at them