Ok, I want some advice / poll the community. First some brief background:
I am not an experienced runner, and building up to my first Sprint this August. My best 5k time is 25:15 right now. I plan to run a 5k race in a couple weeks as a trial. I had ACL replacement in 2000 and it was a patella graft. This means my patella is scarred, and very prone to tendinitis (wish I knew that when I was 19 and decided I didn’t like the “idea” of a cadaver ligament!). Basically, after any hard run or brick workout I’m sore for a day or two. I have been training to run proper and avoid this, and been focusing on my mid-foot strike. I run with old crappy shoes right now (about to change that, hence my post). My achilles got very sore after my last run, and still is (right where the tendon attaches to the calcaneus bone). All of my research leads me to believe I need to work on technique (mid-foot strike being very important as well as keeping my foot under my hip and engaging glutes rather than quads which should help all of the above?). That said, I am about to get professionally fit for shoes and would like to go a little more informed so as to avoid any “sales pitching”. Here are my questions…
Do you heel strike, mid-foot, or toe strike…and are you intentional about your method. If so, why.
What shoe do you all use? I am looking at Newton Energy NR assuming the professional fitter agrees with me after checking me out. I’m hoping to get something with minimal drop.
Do you use orthotics (in-souls)? I really want to avoid that for 2 reasons…first is philosophical (born to run), and second is COST!
Blast away your opinions/personal preferences. I’ll update when I get my fitting with what they tell me…and what I end up buying.
What is the drop on your “old crappy shoes”? If they are basketball style sneakers with a big >12mm drop, I’d advise against going straight into a low drop like those Newton’s (6mm). You don’t want to add Achilles/calf issues to your list of leg troubles.
Yeah…I’m basically running in an old pair of Tigers. They have hardly any drop. They are like 70s track shoes. I tried to look up the drop but couldn’t find the specs.
Good advice. I’ll bring my current shoes to the fitter too, so they can see what I am “used” to.
I had these 10 year old new balance running shoes once, that had pretty gnarly drop and super thick cushion. You know what they gave me? SHIN SPLINTS! Amazing…so about a year ago I tried the Tigers and they relieved my issues. I hardly ran much though. Now that I am training all the sudden I get these pains that I never got on the bike. So it’s time to get educated, fitted, and equipped.
Hopefully, the store has some sort of exchange policy. I got “professionally” and they recommended some asics which never felt right. I suffered through them until buying my next pair online, from a store with a 90 day exchange window. It took a switch to settle on some brooks pure flows, which have been perfect for me.
Nice…thanks. Yes, this running store is highly recommended. A number of people have brought their shoes back for credit and even replacement with different shoes. They are very good that way.
I never imagined I’d waste my time at a running store (heck, I already drop a pretty penny at my LBS)…but I’m starting to see the importance of finding a local support group similar to my biking setup.
From what you are saying it appears to me that Newtons should be the last shoe on your list.
With inflamed tendons I would be looking to put the least amount of stress on them as I could. That would lead me to Hoka shoes.
Of course work on your form so you land on your feet under your body. If that means heal/mid/forefoot stride then it is what it is. Don’t force yourself to land on any certain part of your foot that is unnatural.
Glad to see you getting into the sport and running. Your experience is not uncommon even without the ACL/patella issues that you’ve described.
As such, I would avoid a lot of the discussion of “mid foot” and really try and focus on not over striding, recognizing that you are trying to avoid getting that foot way out in front of you, etc. Principal point of contact on the foot itself is about the last piece of the puzzle.
I would suggest that we want to be trying something with a fair bit more impact absorption, as the knee in your case is not going to provide the shock attenuation through the gait cycle as a healthier knee would. The recommendation for Hoka is not a bad one. In that case, I would point you at either the Conquest or the Bondi. I’d also be looking at something like the Saucony Cortana, Brooks Pure Flow, or New Balance 980. These all feature lower offsets (similar to those Tigers…guessing they would be either Ultimate 81s or Gel Lyte 3s…), a wide platform to land on top of, and a good amount of cushioning.
Without looking at you, it’s impossible to say what could work.
But, forget about the low drop stuff and midfoot striking. Please please PLEASE forget about Born to Run. Right now, do what your body does naturally and just run. Any time you purposefully change your foot strike, you’re likely going to put strain on something else unintentionally.
As mentioned, make sure they have an exchange policy. Even the best fitter and best feeling shoe may not work right. Give them a few weeks though, as you will have an adjustment period from switching from your Tigers.
History of ACL, knee pain, Achilles pain…I suspect a run gait issue that could be contributing to all of this. The tendency to lose lateral stability of the hip during run stance and during a single leg squat, resulting in knee valgus, is strongly related to risk of ACL injury. All of this is strongly related to run cross over gait. I have not seen you run but it is so common with your reported symptoms that I’ll bet you $1 that you have it. Run cross over gait can cause excessive stress on the knee, and on the Achilles. Cross over gait is often associated with lateral foot rotation during the run gait, something referred to as kickstanding. Think about how a bike kickstand works to increase lateral stability. When the gluteus medius (google it) cannot do it’s job properly in providing lateral stability, compensations such as knee valgus and kickstanding can occur. The kickstanding can cause arch collapse or can decrease the effectiveness of the foot push off. As a result, that leg has to generate force faster during push off. The faster rate of force development is a strong risk factor for ahilles tendon issues.
What does all of this mean? Issues like Achilles pain or knee pain can originate further upstream, in the hip. When you go to get professionally fit for running shoes, more than likely they are going to see foot pronation and kickstanding. They will try to control these by giving you motion control shoes. If you are experiencing the issues I described above, these shoes will not help and will likely make things worse. You are a person who could benefit greatly from a good run gait analysis done ideally somewhere that does more than just watch you run. They need to do more evaluation (movement screening, test stability and mobility of the hip, foot etc.).
You have lots going on and I don’t know what your true issues are, and shoe choice may be your least important consideration, unless they put you in a really stiff shoe that makes matters worse, in which case it is important.
If you get a shoe fit gait analysis at the running shoe store and the camera is aimed only at your feet, they do not know what they are doing.
Some examples and explanation of some of the issues I discussed below:
Whoah thanks. All the advice is great! I’ll take it for consideration.
You mention kick standing. I injured my ACL skateboarding when I was 19. I never rehabilitated it (I was young and dumb). So that leg has taken years to feel strong again. I have been cycling at a higher level the last year (particularly mountain biking with a lot of XC climbs so my legs are strong), and that has helped a lot. But the mechanics of run are totally different. So that left leg is “stiff” or “weak” when I get tired. I protect it, especially if it’s sore. If I run with a limp it will most likely be the left leg (the injured one). When I injured my Achilles here’s what basically happened…my patella was still a little sore and mentally I think I ended up kickstanding or limping a lot during the run (trail run). That or landing way out in front with a bent knee. Hard to tell. I was just trying to train and sometimes pain is just pain and it’s hard to correct form when you’re tired.
All that to say I think most of you are correct in your analysis. HOKAs!!! Oh man I hate the look of those (confession). I’ll try anything though, if something doesn’t work I’ll try something else. Nice to know I don’t need to obsess about foot strike - although I started that obsession when I discovered heel strike is what causes my severe shin splints. Ever since I changed my strike I have never had shin splints! (woot)…so with new injuries I go right to foot strike / technique issues. Actually, when I heel striked I think I also landed my foot out in front of my hips. By going mid-foot strike I tend to land under my hips (I think).
When I signed up for the sprint in August I figured I’d throw on my tigers on race day and just go. It’s just a run right? I did some bricks and realized I wouldn’t finish a SPRINT with my running the way it is. I started running, a lot. And improving. Now I realize I won’t improve to where I want to be without proper considerations here - so thanks all. I might look in getting analysis from someone who doesn’t sell shoes.
…and to those who run IM distance - wow. More respect now from my corner. The way this sport is set up (as I train I learn this)…it seems they put the most difficult and physically dangerous (injury to body when tired) at the end. =O
That video series is awesome…really great technique assistance. I’ll work on that for sure.
What is most interesting is that this type of training could be the secret to excelling at bike run. I think I understand now that the skilled runner can engage those glutes and core during the run, which should be fairly fresh after bike. I’ll add this to my daily regimen (the glute and core engaged walk he demonstrates) to hopefully build some muscle memory and strength. I’ll have to see it in action once I heal and can get back in to my bricks with new shoes.
Quick update…I ended up buying Newton Energy NRs, which I love. I ran in a few shoes including the Hokas. They were all nice, but I felt best in the Newton. They also happen to look the nicest (go figure). The lugs are insane. I prefer the low drop also. I have been running low drop for a while now and didn’t want to go backwards. I’m certain my Achilles was because I jacked up my gait compensating for knee pain in the patella. I think all of that stems from my lack of glute and control. I’ll be working on all of this. One of you shared videos of the gait guy and I have been really addicted to their stuff. The cross-over gait is interesting. I am learning there is so much more to running than I imagined. I have also been watching Kelly Starret’s mobility stuff. Now I check out every runner I see (with my wife slapping me of course cause it looks like I’m “checking” them out LOL!). It’s truly interesting to find commonality of flaws among various runners.
So far though, I have not done a full on run with these shoes because I am taking it easy healing. There are (2) main things (in addition to rest) that have helped my Achilles feel better. I am probably going to go running Friday at the rate I am healing.
I started using rollers on my calf every night, and really flattening the lower calf. There’s host spots so I knew right away I was on the right idea. It feels amazing. I have iced a bit off and on too.
I started doing ***eccentric ***calf workouts. I am careful ***not ***to do concentric too. This has helped tremendously. Enough so that now I am certain I can address my patella tendinitis with similar methods. I basically do 30 eccentric calf exercises a day, 10 in the morning, 10 in the afternoon, and 10 at night. I roll out in the evenings before bed, and also after the bike.
It’s times like this I am so thankful to be able to enjoy other types of training in bike and swim. But I miss running.
Right now, do what your body does naturally and just run. Any time you purposefully change your foot strike, you’re likely going to put strain on something else unintentionally.
Change can be a good thing as long as it’s done over time, with care, and listening to one’s body. It sounds like the OP already felt inside that heel strike, etc. wasn’t working and led to the injuries. Not over striding, awareness of foot strike & CoG, proper strengthening of feet/calves/quads/hips/core (vs. insoles), and low drop are all important.
IMHO, nobody knows running mechanics like Jay Dicharry. Anatomy for Runners is good but may not be for everyone. I’ve not read Run Like an Athlete yet.
It’s worth checking out Dr. Mark Cucuzzella’s articles and videos at Natural Running Center. He focuses on minimalist running but there’s lots of good information even if minimalism isn’t your style. If you can get to one of his clinics or to a partner store you’d no doubt learn a lot.
Personally, my favourite running shoe of all time is the Topo Athletic Mountain Trainer. But I’m currently doing the bulk of my training in Hokas while I return from a (non-sport related) ankle fracture & surgery. And the two biggest things that aid my running are balancing on one leg (but you have to learn how to do it properly!!) and core strengthening.
I hate the look of those (confession). I’ll try anything though, if something doesn’t work I’ll try something else. Nice to know I don’t need to obsess about foot strike - although I started that obsession when I discovered heel strike is what causes my severe shin splints. Ever since I changed my strike I have never had shin splints! (woot)…so with new injuries I go right to foot strike / technique issues. Actually, when I heel striked I think I also landed my foot out in front of my hips. By going mid-foot strike I tend to land under my hips (I think).