Running shoe question, throw out the Kayanos? [UPDATE]

I’ve been thinking for awhile that I need to ditch my Kayanos and try something else but I am not sure what. I’ll preface by saying that I wear a size 13, 6’ and 210lbs so I need (or least am pretty sure that I need) a little cushion, hence the reason I starting running in Kayanos years ago. I bought a pair if Kayano 14’s a few months ago and they caused nothing but problems, shin splints ect ect. Went back to my 13’s but I still think they are not the shoe for me. If you are a heel striker I think they would be fine but I’m not. After my runs I feel like someone took a baseball bat to my lower body and think I need something with more shock absorbing in the mid foot. I have very flat feet but don’t “over” pronate. My shoes usually wear out mid sole on the outside first. I was thinking something like a NB 883, more of a neutral shoe with more midsole cushion. I know I need to HTFU but there is no way after 7 years of running that I should feel beat to crap after a 5 mile easy run. Please help!


After many many years in Kayanos I went for my first run today in my new Mizuno Creation 10’s. I will have to give it a few more weeks to see if they turn out to be anything like today inthe long run but they were the most comfortable shoe I have ever run in.

Thanks again to everyone!!

Mizuno wave was what I went with thye provide more cushioning and I was a Kayno man before that
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I’m also 6’1 210 and wear size 13, I’ve tried everything and always go back to the Nike Equalon. Nothing else has worked as well at preventing shin splints. I had the same problem as you with the Kayanos.

-Brandon

Mizuno is running around the country right now with their foot analysis trailer. While I wouldn’t change solely based upon a tech analysis. a running partner tried a mid level in favor of kayanos and said that he had not felt that good running in years. (and the mizunos were cheaper than the kayanos too)…

go check the mizuno’s out.

Go the Nike Equalon 3+.
I used to use Kayano …until version 13.
Then I changed to Brooks Adrenaline and Brooks Trace - was noy happy.
Then, I tried the Nike (before, I didn’t like Nike shoes…not a specific reason)…and I’m very happy. Aparentely, finally Nike learned how to do good running shoes.
Suggest you to buy thru www.roadrunnersports.com and if you don’t like you, just returned (60 days to return, even used).
good luck

How has no one mentioned the 21 series from asics, the most popular shoe in the industry? It is a similar feel and fit, and I think a bit cushier than the Kayano, also $40 less.

I hate to tell you, but if you shoe is wearing on the outside, that means you do pronate at least a little. If you truely are neutral (like 10% of the entire population), then your shoe would have completely even wear. I am also kind of confused how your shoe wears midfoot? Most running shoes have some kind of a cut out, raised section in the middle.

You’re a pretty big dude, I mide try more a motion control type shoe.

Why don’t you just go to a decent local store and have them help you try on some different pairs? It is virtually impossible to analyse someone’s foot strike and necessary shoe without actually seeing them.

flat foot and 200 lbs myself, i swear by the mizuno wave inspire. they use a plastic wave in the heel/midfoot that does both the cushioning and the support and it really does work: the wave shape absorbs and distributes the weight on impact, and the fact that it is made of plastic makes is so much more stable then foam and cuts the weight dramatically

bump for update
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How has no one mentioned the 21 series from asics, the most popular shoe in the industry? It is a similar feel and fit, and I think a bit cushier than the Kayano, also $40 less.

I hate to tell you, but if you shoe is wearing on the outside, that means you do pronate at least a little. If you truely are neutral (like 10% of the entire population), then your shoe would have completely even wear. I am also kind of confused how your shoe wears midfoot? Most running shoes have some kind of a cut out, raised section in the middle.

You’re a pretty big dude, I mide try more a motion control type shoe.

Why don’t you just go to a decent local store and have them help you try on some different pairs? It is virtually impossible to analyse someone’s foot strike and necessary shoe without actually seeing them.

I agree that it is nigh impossible to analyse foot strike in text and he should either have someone else watch him run or video himself running to actually get a detailed check out.

However, please, please, please don’t suggest something as incorrect as “…wearing on the outside…means you do pronate…” Please. Pronate means rolling your feet inward or running with feet tilted inward. Suppinate (aka under-pronate) means rolling your feet outward or running with feet tilted outward. That’s not to say that a suppinator may not also want a support shoe, but if the dominant wear is on the outside edge of the outsole, the runner is not pronating.

End of public service announcement.

actually you are incorrect on this one! I worked in a running shop for 2.5 years, probably saw about 10,000 pairs of old shoes. Most pronators (ie. most of the population), will wear out the outside rear corner of their shoe first. This is where the initial impact takes places; their foot will then roll towards the middle (and inside) as the foot begins to flatten out. Most people are heel strikers (which is not as bad as everyone on slowtwitch will tell you), and if your foot pronates the outside of your foot would have to hit first? Where else would wear out? Shoe companies know this, that is why on most shoes, there will be breaks (lines in the outsole) on the ouside of the heel, and many will a more beveled “catch” area on that rear corner". These features allow for the first and hardest impact. (they may also reduce some of the wear, although most people will still wear this area out first).

I have seen some rare excepts, but we are talking 1 in 1,000 people here (and I think I can count on one hand the amount of supinators I saw while working).

The case could be made that a neutral person might wear out the outside heel first, if they are in too stable a shoe, and are simply not able to pronate into a neutral position.

I am a perfect example of this, I always wear out the rear corner of my shoe, and I definitely pronate (wear the 21s and a pretty decent orthotic).

The important thing is to have someone who knows take a look and make the call. TREAD PATTERN IS NOT THE SOLUTION FOR DIAGNOSING SHOE TYPE! I am only telling you what I have seen with majorities and generalities.

Have you tried orthodics? 2 season’s ago I went w/ blue Superfeet and they cured all my ills. I believe all of my problems were caused by the flimsy stock inserts.

I wore Kayano XI’s (never liked newer versions). Currently Mizuno Wave Inspires. Just got the Kayano DS 14’s but not sure they’ll suffice for marathon distance.

May go back to the “endangered” Kayano XI’s as my long distance “go to” shoe.

Whatever I wear my superfeet get inserted.

btw I’m 5’11 and was 195 now 180 hence the experimenting.

i’ve also been looking to get out of the Kayanos, as i’m 165 lbs. I too run only in the XI’s, none of the newer versions seem to work for me. I’ve tampered with some other brands, but always end up in the kayano XI. not a fan of the 2000 series, but i may give the ds trainer a whirl

At the risk of sounding like a Homer, I would suggest you find a running store and have an expert put you in a shoe. I am a huge guy by the standards of this forum. I have a wide foot. My local running store put me in an Asics Nimbus. I love them. The best part is that they offer a money back guarantee. If they put you in a shoe, and you take it out for a couple of runs and hate, they will take the shoes back. Sports Authority won’t let you return a shoe that has been used. Go in after you have done a long run or late in the day so your feet are swollen. Take the socks you run in. Wear something that you can be comfortable in when they put you on the treadmill.

I have never tried orthodics. I already feel so much better the day after a run that I have in the last few years of using my Kayanos. Maybe it was just the last few versions of Kayanos that didn’t work for me but I am not going back. I will still use my DS’s for anything less than a 1/2 but will try to use my mizunos on a day to day basis.
Thanks again

So you got the Inspire? That would be a very similar shoe (I have used many myself).

Funny that you mentioned cushion in the first post, and went with an Inspire. Most people would say the Mizuno shoe is much harder than the Asics (Inspire vs. Kayano/21XX). I think this just goes to shoe, that “cushion” is kind of a relative term for running shoes. It is just a small factor in the fit and feel of a shoe.

Brooks Adrenaline and Nike Structure Triax would be another couple shoes to try if you wanted more options.

Hope you find something that works.

If you just go into the running store (a good store that you trust), and are open minded that helps the process so much, it is not fun having to fight someone on shoes for an hour. They don’t listen to you, come back in a week and return them, and get the one’s you recommended first.

Best advice: If the shoe neutralizes you (ie. gives you enough support), then go with the shoe that doesn’t feel like it is there.

actually you are incorrect on this one! I worked in a running shop for 2.5 years, probably saw about 10,000 pairs of old shoes. Most pronators (ie. most of the population), will wear out the outside rear corner of their shoe first. This is where the initial impact takes places; their foot will then roll towards the middle (and inside) as the foot begins to flatten out. Most people are heel strikers (which is not as bad as everyone on slowtwitch will tell you), and if your foot pronates the outside of your foot would have to hit first? Where else would wear out? Shoe companies know this, that is why on most shoes, there will be breaks (lines in the outsole) on the ouside of the heel, and many will a more beveled “catch” area on that rear corner". These features allow for the first and hardest impact. (they may also reduce some of the wear, although most people will still wear this area out first).

I have seen some rare excepts, but we are talking 1 in 1,000 people here (and I think I can count on one hand the amount of supinators I saw while working).

The case could be made that a neutral person might wear out the outside heel first, if they are in too stable a shoe, and are simply not able to pronate into a neutral position.

I am a perfect example of this, I always wear out the rear corner of my shoe, and I definitely pronate (wear the 21s and a pretty decent orthotic).

The important thing is to have someone who knows take a look and make the call. TREAD PATTERN IS NOT THE SOLUTION FOR DIAGNOSING SHOE TYPE! I am only telling you what I have seen with majorities and generalities.

I’ll absolutely accept that the majority of running shoes wear out “diagonally” from outer heal to big toe, but that wear pattern actually describes neutral to mild pronators, which, you’re correct, do make up the vast majority of the population. That outer rear corner of the heal will wear a lot more quickly the more a person walks in a shoe, too. That’s how the foot is supposed to fall in the averge walking gait of an average person. You’re “supposed to” pronate as a means of natural shock absorption. A severe pronator will wear the inside edge of the shoe from heal to toe and are about as rare as a true supinator. Severe pronators need focused PT and probably an orthotic in the mean time. If the shoe is wearing along the outer edge from strike zone to toe, the runner’s a supinator.

And, I also agree, heal striking is more common than not in runners and, no, it’s not a bad thing. It is pretty inefficient all things considered, particularly depending on how far in front of your center of gravity that strike occurs (same applies to mid-/forefoot striking, actually). As much or more than being technique driven, most heal-/mid-/forefoot striking is a function of the flexibility and strength of the foot, ankle, and lower leg and of the weight of the runner. Pace is very correlated to striking, too, but it’s chicken and egg scenario for which causes the other. You see many more of the mid-/forefoot strikers in the neutral to supinator categories because they tend to be stronger and/or have stiffer arches/feet and have less access to pronation as shock absorption. Ankle movement and foot/leg joint cartilage are used instead.

People should absolutely buy the shoes that fit their running, but, if it were entirely based on gait, I’d hazard about as many people should be in one pound structure shoes as end up in Newtons. That middle chunk of the bell curve should be working on their running form and building their foot and calf strength, rather than relying on shoes and insoles to fix it for them. They won’t “fix” anything for them and may actually hinder improvement.

Aaaaand done with this soapbox. :slight_smile: