I did a large local running race this morning (Pat’s Run, Tempe, AZ). The announcers said there were 28,000 people in the event; of course, many are walkers in the back. This event is a 4.2-mile race and fundraiser for the Pat Tillman Foundation. Very fun event with decent technical shirts.
That being said, they had corrals set up at one minute pace intervals, i.e. 5 min pace, 6 min pace, 7 min pace, 8 min pace, etc. I lined up in the 7 min pace corral (I never claimed to be fast), and from the gun, I was passing all kinds of people who were going much, much slower than a 7:00 to 7:59 pace. We’re talking 9 or 10 minute pace. I simply don’t understand WHY people do this. It is dangerous to themselves, and to others. I had squeeze by some very slow runners and nearly tripped over them. This race had chip timing, so I just don’t get why this happens so frequently. (Even if there is no chip timing, it is inexcusable). Do people simply believe that the rules don’t apply to them?
I had this happen at Rock N Roll Vegas marathon/half last year. You had to walk in the gate of your corral, but once you were in there, it was wide open and you could basically walk up to faster starting areas.
I was in the 2nd corral (out of like 30, I think) and it was at least 20 minutes of running before I wasn’t almost tripping over slower people. MUCH slower people.
I think people move up because they want to get ahead of the slow people, ie the people that are the same speed that they are!
I had a friend do that Pat’s Run today (as he has since the start of it) and he said it is just getting bigger and bigger and they are not doing a great job of handling the huge crowds.
People simply have no idea of their ability to run. For big races with corrals
I think you need to be in a corrall 1 to 2 minuts/mile faster than what you
know you’re going to run just to be with your peers.
People simply have no idea of their ability to run. For big races with corrals
I think you need to be in a corrall 1 to 2 minuts/mile faster than what you
know you’re going to run just to be with your peers.
-Jot
Ahh, I think you may be right on both counts…but the former is just inexperienced runners(?), and the latter itself contributes to the problem.
Corral 1 is the only place to be if you’er finishing FOP. I’ve started in Corral 2 a few times even though I’m always seeded for Corral 1, and it’s not good - a good number of super-slowsteres (including kids) as well as people with no idea how to pace who sprint out for 800 meters and then start walking - in a marathon, no less.
I’ve found corral 1 to be much better in megathons. I can generally run my race without incident from the beginning - and in fact, I tend to get passed like crazy from the get-go, even though I run a rock-steady pace from start to finish. (Tons of passing on the backside.)
Ahh, I think you may be right on both counts…but the former is just inexperienced runners(?), and the latter itself contributes to the problem.
Yes, but I can’t fix the former, and the latter seems to be the defacto standard.
Listen, I’m slow. I know I’m slow. I did the PF Chang’s RnR Half a few years ago. I put in my anticipated
time as 2:30. I went 2:23. I passed people in MILE 1 who were walking. So, they had to put down
a 2:15 and by mile 2, I’m passing the people who put down 2:00 and were walking. That doesn’t even
pass the “I did this because I lost a bet” math.
I went back and did the math. Took the total participants divided by the # of corrals to determine my best
possible starting position. Then I took my finish position within that field.
With a 2:23 HM, I passed over 4000 people.
That isn’t “inexperience”. That’s outright lunacy. I recognize if I were to do it again I’d contribute, but
I think everyone has to agree that if you don’t have 4000 11:00min milers “running you over” the race
would be better for everyone.
Best bet is to look at what place your running speed would have put you in the previous year’s finisher list, and pick the appropriate corral based on that rather than the listed pace.
Anyone have any experience where qualifying times are required for assigning corrals instead of self-seeding?
Example - Chicago has ~ 30,000 runners, but the first 4 corrals (3,000 per corral) required prior finishing times to be submitted. Does this effectively smooth things out if you’re in corral B?
Chicago’s corrals are so large that you still get quite a bit of people passing others. Mostly what they eliminate is the 12 minute per mile guy lining up in front of the 6 or 7 minute per mile guy.
A race like Chicago can get away with that because the roads are huge. Boston has 28 corrals so things are smoothed out much more but they have to be since the road is so narrow.
Anyone have any experience where qualifying times are required for assigning corrals instead of self-seeding?
Example - Chicago has ~ 30,000 runners, but the first 4 corrals (3,000 per corral) required prior finishing times to be submitted. Does this effectively smooth things out if you’re in corral B?
For the R&R ones, everyone has to put a time on their registration.
I tried to figure out how it worked for Vegas when I saw that I was Corral 2. I think I had put 1:43 as my predicted time or previous best (not sure which one they asked for) and then my bib came out as Corral 2. I was asking other people if they seeded according to gender, so that women were spread throughout the corrals, but it seemed, no, it was based purely on finishing time. So I believe it is based on your time, versus the # of people signed up. ie it seemd that Corral 1 and 2 would have wide time spreads eg Corral 1 might be a 15 min spread, whereas once you got to like Corral 15, it might be a 3 min spread.
I guess the exception to the over-seeding issue would be women shooting for a competitive time. It doesn’t seem fair that someone shooting for a top overall placing should have to start back from the line. I would think RD’s would consider making an “Elite Women’s” bin to one side of the start line to let them start up on the line without getting trampled.
For the other people though, I will make no attempt to be delicate in squeezing past someone who has obviously overseeded themselves.
I guess the exception to the over-seeding issue would be women shooting for a competitive time. It doesn’t seem fair that someone shooting for a top overall placing should have to start back from the line. I would think RD’s would consider making an “Elite Women’s” bin to one side of the start line to let them start up on the line without getting trampled.
For the other people though, I will make no attempt to be delicate in squeezing past someone who has obviously overseeded themselves.
At R&R Vegas, yes, there was an Elite group,and the Elite women were in there. Then Corral 1 was behind that. Not sure how they decided who got to be in the Elite group versus in Corral 1. Thank you for making that point.
It is an awkward situation, back in the masses. I ran at a 1:43 pace which put me top 10 in my age group, so yeah, for me it’s a pretty competitive, important race, that I’ve invested a lot of time and effort into. I am not too pleasant to the 25 year old dudes who are running in front of me (at what for them is a very easy pace) with their iPods on, totally oblivious to me trying to get around them or get water quickly from the tables. I am not a very nice person in those situations
If they have pacers stick with a group near your speed.
Everytime I go out with a pace group I don’t have as much problem dodging people. Maybe it is the pace-group phalanx in front of me that clears the road.
Funny thing at the Vegas half two years ago… before it became a Rock & Roll event, there were no corrals. I was standing somewhat towards the front, with a bunch of friends. There was a BIG bunch of Vegas police officers standing as a group right in front of us, that we started chatting to. Finally the one officer says to me, Uhhh, here’s a heads-up, we’re going to be running in “formation” for the entire race, so if you want to run fast, you’ll probably want to get in front of us BEFORE the gun goes off! Thanks buddy!
