Running out of steam on the run

Triathlon Forum
1

I ran out of steam on the run in my last HIM race, and I am looking for advice on my training program for my first full IM.

For context, I’m 44, male, 98.7 kg (217.5 lbs), 28.5 BMI. Your average time-constrained, overweight midpack guy.

This wasn’t my first HIM, but it was the first one I was seriously preparing for. Not blowing up on the run was actually one of my goals. I’m thinking it has to be either my training, pacing, nutrition, or the weather. Maybe a combination of these.

Training. I created a HIM-specific training plan on TrainerRoad. 22 weeks. One week was lost early on due to illness. Started at 58 CTL, peaked at 73 CTL, day before the race - 65 CTL. Weekly run average - 22.5 km. Longest run 19.3 km. Weekly bike average - 143 km. Longest bike 50 km. Weekly TSS average - 446. Average weekly swim, bike, run - 6:59:25, with three weeks reaching around 9 hours. All the workouts were created by TrainerRoad. I did all my bike and run workouts, missing maybe one or two over a month. I did only one swim workout per week to save time, as I am pretty happy with my 1:50-2:00/100m pace and just wanted to maintain it. Looking back, it feels like I didn’t have enough bike/run volume.

Pacing. Everywhere I look, the default answer to blowing up on the run is poor pacing on the bike. However, I was really taking it easy on the bike. I spent 76% time in the Z2 HR zone. My power was 40% in Z1 and 43% in Z2. Swim was also fairly relaxed. I was feeling decent at the start of the run, even excited, holding my target pace. My heart rate on the run started very high, close to max, but that is normal for me after T2. Then it settled around Z3. But after the 7th km, I started feeling fatigued. Dropped the pace, but after a few more kilometers, I had to run-walk to be able to move forward.

Nutrition. I followed my nutrition plan closely. Took a gel before the swim, every 30 minutes on the bike (40g) and on the run (20g). Stayed hydrated on the bike and at each aid station on the run. Took a sodium tablet on T2.

Conditions. The weather was perfect. Slightly chilly in the morning, but not too cold. Water comfortable. Cloudy and not too hot on the bike, no wind. The temperature went up a little on the run, and the sun came out as well. My core temp went up, but it was still comfortable, and I wouldn’t call it a hot day.

I created a new, 34-week IM training plan on TrainerRoad. However, I’m now concerned that it won’t adequately prepare me for a full IM. It looks like it peaks on week 31, with the longest ride of 04:15 and the longest run of 03:00. What are your thoughts?

2

You don’t need to do 3hr training runs..

Losing 15kg will help. (Believe me,I know)

Sorry..

4 Likes
3

Hey mate try giving another him a go where you nail the pace before doing IM distance. Try more neg split pace work. It feels so good to finish strong so just try that next time. Blowing up and slowing down is very demoralising. But building pace is a great way to race to neg split

1 Like
4

So you are averaging 60-40 grams of carbs on the bike and run? Try to bump it up, especially on the bike.

Longest ride 50km is quite short, even with low volume training you probably need to do a couple of longer rides to feel comfortable once you start running.

3 Likes
5

Theories:

  1. Too little volume, especially on the run.
  2. Your threshold (based on which your zones are estimated) is inflated. You were riding in higher zones than you think. This is very likely if you are basing your threshold on TR’s famously flawed ramp test.
  3. Your long workouts were too short. To go at a certain power and pace in a 70.3, I need to know I can do a brick with 4x25’ at race power in a 2.5-hour+ bike ride and at least 45’ at race pace on the subsequent run. This doesn’t guarantee I won’t blow up in the race, but if I can’t do it, then I am certain to blow up hard.
  4. Trainerroad’s plan didn’t have the right structure, especially in terms of the relative amount of zone 2 training (too little) and the number of workouts with intensity per week (too high). This hot take is from a former user (including the adaptive version).
  5. A guy your size could need a lot more carbs, especially on the run.
  6. The swim took more out of you than you think.
6 Likes
6

Thanks for the replies!

ThailandUltras yep, weight is a known issue :sweat_smile:. I’ve lost 3 kg since the race. I’m on a weight loss plan and have 36 weeks to reach 88 kg. So almost 10 kg less since my last race.

Thanks waverider101, I don’t think I will be able to do another HIM, but I have local half-marathon coming up, so it will be a good opportunity to go for a negative split.

@AC_Prestation, 80g on the bike, 40g on the run. I’ll try to up the dose in my training to see how I feel. I never really reached the point previously where my stomach would get upset due to gels. Thanks for the suggestion.

@kajet, yep, the bike power zones were based of TR ramp test. I got 309W on the ramp FTP test 8 weeks before the race. Two weeks after the race I did their AI FTP detection thing and it said my FTP was 304W. To be honest, I’m fairly sure I couldn’t ride at 304W for an hour. Speaking of zones, I have an opportunity to go for a lab test. Is it worth it? Or should I aim just for lower % of FTP during the race?

kajet, thanks for the suggestion brick test. In TR plan there was no such workout (long ride with long brick) and I was following the plan very religiously. How far from the race day would you do such a test?

kajet, I definitely agree with the take, that TR plan was too high on intensity and too low on easy volume. Depending on the block, it was usually two threshold or VO2Max, one tempo or sweet spot and one endurance ride ride. But recovery weeks were almost exclusively all endurance. Having said that, I looked at my upcoming full IM plan on TR and there is a lot more focus on endurance. Most of the rides are endurance with one threshold, sweet spot and very occasional VO2Max. Not sure if that’s the difference because of IM and HIM or if they are changing their algorithms.

1 Like
7

I think most of the replies have given you the info you’d need. I’ll second the volume comment. My usual training is around 7-8ish hours split something like 3-4 hours bike, 2-3 run, 1-1:30 swim. I typically aim for a 2:30-3 hour ride on the weekend and then a 90min easy run the next day just to ensure I have the volume I know I’ll need for the race.

Mid-week is where I aim for the higher intensity workouts, usually around 60-90min and I typically throw in a 20min brick run after the bike workout.

I’ll be honest and say I don’t put quite as much effort into my swimming but I usually try and do 2 swims per week and are 1500-2000m in length (30-40min).

2 Likes
8

I agree. Each kilo less will do wonders for your run. Definitely keep it up luko, losing 10 kilos over time since the last race is impressive!

3 Likes
9

Not an expert! I think the 20-minute test (where you do a 5-minute all out effort first and assume your FTP is 95% of the 20-minute TT done on somewhat tired legs) would likely give you a better idea of your threshold. Alternatively, a simple 20-minute TT without the 5-minute leg thrasher where you assume your threshold is 90% of your 20-minute power. As for the brick, it should be a part of a bigger program IMO - in the plan I did, the 4x25’ appeared 2 weeks out (preceded by a 4x20’ IIRC), and then there was an easier/shorter brick one week out. Basically my experience transitioning from a TR plan to a more traditional one (no affiliation! I am a returning customer however) was that I trained almost the same volume, less intensity and got better results. Good luck!

3 Likes
10

Run walk strategy from start of run would be worth looking at. I did that January with 1km run, 1 min walk. Finished just over 5hrs total.

11

Looks like we are on similar plans..(although I have done a bunch of Iron’s before,when I was fit and skinny and women still wanted to date me.:rofl::rofl:)

I have 37 weeks to ride my fat ass around Oz while Tri training in time for Ironman Cairns in June..Hopefully I’ll be 20kg lighter than when I started.

12

Hey yours is on June 14th, mine is on June 7th, in Hamburg. See you on the other side :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

1 Like
13

Yep, I’m not ruling out run-walk strategy, will have to see where I’m at when it’s closer to the race date. My goal is just to complete the distance while not looking completely destroyed in front of my six year old kid :smiley:

1 Like
14

That’s an impressive finish time with a run/walk strategy! What were your splits?

15

Was a 1h55 run leg, which was based off 1km run, 1min walk. Started off at 4:40 pace then after 6km the course had a hilly loop and from there to finish was 5:00/km run. Also a minute stopped chatting to some family 400m out from finish :blush:.
Came out of transition with a few people and with those early splits was running past them, and then they would come back as I was walking. But gradually they passed me closer to the end of the minute walk and then from half way didn’t see them again.
Bike was a 2:26 which was very controlled on a pan flat course. Secret to any good middle or long distance run/ tri is going way slower than you think you should be on the bike.

2 Likes
16

I was thinking your bike must have been pretty quick.

Your post jumped out at me because I once did a HIM in 5:05 with a 27 minute swim and a 1:30 run. As you can imagine, I’m a slow cyclist.

1 Like
17

Lots of good replies already.

My two cents:

Long ride far, far too little. My long ride for HIM would be 3.5 to 4.5 hours. Maybe one could do less. However, I like riding the bike and I found this approach has given me good results (PR of 2:16).

Avg weekly run volume light. I averaged 45km in the lead up

Carbs. Think you were light on carbs. I do 200g for the bike. So about 90g / hour. The new thinking is to aim for 120g.

Salt. Think you were light on the electrolytes. I am 1g / hour. The new thinking is 1.2g/hour.

Weight. Already discussed
FTP test / zones / bike pacing. I think this was your biggest issue. There is no way you were 50/50 zone 1 and 2 on the bike and finished the ride at maxHR (phrased more diplomatically, I struggle to believe….). Do 30 min test or 2 x 20 LT sessions. Do enough of those and you will estimate your FTP very accurately (at least worked for me). If you hit maxHR coming into T2 not surprised you were relegated to a walk downstream. I have hit maxHR on a couple of uphill bike races and I needed to rest on my toptube at the finish line for 3 minutes before I felt I could dismount the bike (and noticed many were doing the same).

Best to get HIM dialed in before a full IM. If full IM is already committed then:

Bike: 6 hours for longest long ride. Even better 7.
Run: 3 hours is risky. High risk, high return. You better be very injury resistant and have great recovery to do 3hr run. If you are not, then dial it back to 2 hours.
Good luck! Lots of moving pieces with triathlon

2 Likes
18

Ha, bike was slightly short, but also I was coming back from a pretty major medical thing. Actually had no balance and so had to stop at aid station to refill bottles, couldn’t do it on the move. Was 37kph at 223w, which compared to the previous year at 39kph at 260w on my old Argon…. My all time pure run pb is 1:36, but have done a 1:43split in HIM.

19

I skimmed the replies and didn’t see anybody ask what I think is the most important question. What is your goal for a FIM? Are you looking to qualify for Kona? Just looking to notch a full distance finish? Cross the finish line with enough gas to sprint?

As for me, I can only comment on notching a finish as that’s all I cared about, and all I had in me. If that’s your main goal, I would say you’re probably already there. You just need to modify your plan a little bit. If I had mine to do over, I probably would have started the run in a walk and just sucked down nutrition like I was getting paid for it. If you have a decent swim and bike, you’ll have plenty of time for the run course. If it were me, I would just plan on a fast walk the first few miles to get the calories back in my system, then pick up the pace as tolerated.

But like I said, my only concern was to cross that finish line before cut off. If your goal is anything other than that, my advice is pretty much worthless. Good luck with your training.

1 Like
20

Agree with run-walk and agree with more calories.

FWIW, I coached / guided / mentored my son in his first Ironman (which we did together!!). Goal was to finish and not feel like total trash. As mentioned in prior posts, I had him do a 6hr ride (he bailed on the second one) and a couple 4 hr rides; then he did about 3 or 4 two hours runs (around 13 miles ish). I also told him we were gonna do run-walk from the onset. As much he kicked and screamed and said “C’mon Dad". We did just that. Walked every km / aid station at Placid. Run was successful this way. Honestly, don’t find run-walk too slow for a full IM and oh boy are those walks breaks fantastic in the second part of the run. We came around in 4h 10min.

Hope this helps and good luck

2 Likes