I know that there are charts that convert one to another (i.e. 1% incline on treadmill approximates running outside and wind resistance). What I’m looking for is this: Is the perceived effort of running the same pace on a treadmill vs. outside (flat, little wind) the same, harder or easier ? That is do you have to work harder to maintain your pace on a treadmill ?
I have never run outside yet but have read all kind of things about it. My conclusion was that it’s different for every person since so much of it is psychological. So I do the threadmill at 0% and when I get to go outside I’ll adjust the %incline to match it to myself.
I have never run outside yet but have read all kind of things about it.
It’s not too bad… particularly if you get one of these
Have been doing a little of both lately. on the treadmill it seems i work harder at the ssme pace vs outside but i wonder is it because of the constant speed of the treadmill. Little changes in grade and pace can make a huge difference in a outside run. A 8 minute pace on the treadmill is a constant 8 but outside it may range from 7:45 to 8:15 based on the terrain. Just my thinking, I may be completely wrong. But I have thought the same question none the less.
This winter I did a lot of my tempo work on the treadmill and when I finally went out and raced a du, I found that it was a lot easier holding a quick pace in a race than it had been holding a bit of slower pace on the treadmill. Granted, it’s always a little different in a race, but still. My college track coach used to say that even w/ the 1% adjustment, running on the treadmill still required less effort than running outside simply b/c you don’t have to push off with the same amount of effort you do outside b/c the treadmill moves the ground for you. I don’t necessarily buy that, and I’m not even sure if it makes any sense, but it’s what he claimed.
This winter I did a lot of my tempo work on the treadmill and when I finally went out and raced a du, I found that it was a lot easier holding a quick pace in a race than it had been holding a bit of slower pace on the treadmill. Granted, it’s always a little different in a race, but still. My college track coach used to say that even w/ the 1% adjustment, running on the treadmill still required less effort than running outside simply b/c you don’t have to push off with the same amount of effort you do outside b/c the treadmill moves the ground for you. I don’t necessarily buy that, and I’m not even sure if it makes any sense, but it’s what he claimed.
Thanks for the input. Sounds like your actual experience runs counter to the published wisdom ! This has been my experience as well.
I personally feel like running on a treadmill is harder for me. I think it’s because outside, I can slow down if I have to re-focus or conserve some energy and then speed up when I feel a little better. On the treadmill, I have to just keep going at the same pace which is sometimes hard for me to hold. Also, on the treadmill, I have to keep more alert because I might eat it if I mis-step and I think that takes more effort than if I’m just running outside.
You don’t plant your foot on the treadmill and when your heel strikes the belt drags your leg back for you eliminating some of the work you would do running outside.
I run on the treadmill most of the winter and I focus on zone 4 work, shorter distances. The cardio aspect crosses over to outdoor running. On a side note, I seem to get tendinitis in my tibial tendons if I spend too much time on the tread mill. My theory is that I have a slight bio-mechanical problem and it gets magnified from too much linear running on the treadmill. I think there is a ton of strength benefits from running on uneven terrain and turning corners. My guess is that running 5 miles outdoors causes more fatigue when compared to running 5 miles at the same speed on a softer treadmill surface. Another guess is treadmill and outdoor running don’t cause identical acid responses in the leg muscles. I love my treadmill but I have to do the majority of my mileage outdoors.
One thing ive noticed more and more lately is that i heat up a lot more on a treadmill, there isnt any wind to cool you off that there would be outside. I can run quite a bit faster outside, much more comfortably.
Much prefer running outside than using the treadmill.
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No matter the weather still better.
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Bore’s me to death trogging away on the treadmill.
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It’s harder to run outside . ( weather , road surface , gradient etc )
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Treadmill does the pace setting and makes you run.
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Treadmill doesn’t respond quick enough to your selections.
I always gauge my effort by HR zones and use the treadmill as my easy days to relieve the jnts.
I find I run faster for the same perceived exertion outdoors than on the treadmill. I think it’s because of the increased heat stress on the treadmill.
The treadmill is a very misunderstood part of the arsenal of tools available to a triathlete. Using the treadmill, you can get a better return on your training time if you learn to use it in the right way. I have an athlete who turned his two-hour long run into his 1:34 long run over the course of about a year using the treadmill for specific sets including his long run. Most of the people I coach are encouraged to make heavy use of the treadmill. I can tell you that a few professional world champions have run almost exclusively on the treadmill for long stretches and come off running faster than ever.
In basic terms, running on a flat treadmill enables you to run at the same aerobic load as on land, but to run at a faster pace for that aerobic load. Meaning: You can run faster for longer, which means you are training neuromuscular patterns to fire at a rate that equates to a faster run pace. The aerobic training component in either case is the same.
What does this mean? It means you are getting more bang for your training buck. Yes, a 7min mile on a flat treadmill “feels” easier than a flat 7min mile on land – and it is – but remember that the context here is to run at the same aerobic load. If you can hold a 7:00min/mile pace on land for 20min, and you can hold a 6:50min/mile pace on the treadmill for 20min, that 20min run on the treadmill will give you the same aerobic training load but will teach your motor neurons to fire at a faster pace. Do this often enough for long enough and you are teaching your nerves to fire at a faster rate – your muscles follow suit and learn to contract at a faster rate. You run faster because you’re training more than just your aerobic system.
As you come to better feel and understand the usefulness of this approach, you can come to use the treadmill then to simulate triathlon running more closely. You can make use of the gradient option, a nearby spin bike or weight machines to strip the strength from your legs and force yourself to run fast on tired legs. As long as you approach the session with the underlying goal of running with best-possible form (don’t get lazy or sloppy), you can quickly improve triathlon-specific run skills. There are all kinds of ways of doing this outside, too.
By enabling you to closely control the variables (wind, gradient, surface), the treadmill lets you better monitor improvement over time and get a better feel for how your body responds to changes in your training environment: Sleep, nutrition, life stress and so on. Over time, you develop a better intuitive feeling for your training state of body and mind and as your training career progresses, you can use your past sessions to compare current treadmill performances in certain sets and immediately see where your fitness level is without having to test yourself over race distances.
So getting back to your question: Running on a flat treadmill at the same pace as on windless, flat land (hard or track or similar surface) is easier to maintain. But by inverting that standard way of perceiving the situation and asking: Does a treadmill allow me to hold a faster pace at no extra aerobic burden? you can come a step closer to making use of some great tools and structuring your training in a way that makes your training much more effective and specifically useful for triathletes.
Hope this helps.
That’s all interesting information, but I can’t run faster on the treadmill than on flat ground. I don’t find it easier to hold a higher pace on the treadmill, and I’ve proven this by doing numerous workouts outdoor and on the treadmill. For me and, it appears from the posts above, a lot of other people, we would get more neuromuscular benefit by running outdoors. This is exactly why I train outdoors whenever possible.
No one is saying it’s easier to hold a higher pace on the treadmill – the point is that the AEROBIC stress on your body is the same AT a somewhat higher pace.
The scenario is a great one for helping to understand what goes into human performance.
If I correctly surmise that you are carrying a degree of extra padding, then the heat stress by not having a cooling breeze on the treadmill will make it feel harder, definitely.
If you are easily bored by an unchanging environment then your tenacity and desire to improve in and of itself leaves you at a disadvantage. This state of mind is common among many time-deprived individuals, people with many different demands on them from many angles (running on the treadmill of life) or those undergoing significant stresses.Taking it a step farther then, if these are your circumstances you put yourself doubly at a disadvantage as these two aspects prevent you from accessing highly useful, pertinent and effective training methods. You can begin to see how high performance gathers momentum as various facets of lifestyle, desire and fitness combine and gather force.
What’s your body size? How long have you been training? What does “can’t” mean? Is it your mind? Are you being held back by the environment? If you’re heavy, is the extra insulation without a cooling breeze putting more heat stress on your body?
Explain your context.
I’m 6’1", 161lbs so I don’t think extra insulation is the problem. I’m in 34-35min 10k shape at the moment. I’m not the skinniest duathlete around by any stretch, but here’s a photo from last weekend so you can judge for yourself:
http://www.armadaphotography.co.uk/...jpg&swfname&
On the other hand, I don’t seem to handle the heat stress associated with being stationary very well. I’ve noticed this on the trainer but I’ve been able to manage it with fans and open windows. On the treadmill at the gym, I can’t put a fan in front of me, so I just have to deal with the environment as it is. Strangely, I’m fine outdoors on hot days. I raced Powerman Zofingen last August in hot weather (I think it was around 32 Celsius in the afternoon) and was fine in the heat. As long as I’m moving I seem to be okay.
Cheers,
Don
I just edited my post to elaborate on some of the other factors that can come into play. Obviously body shape/size isn’t a concern for you! (one of the troubles of these forums is that you never know who is writing what…)
You can train heat tolerance. It will take about three weeks but you should notice significant improvement and the treadmill in this way adds yet another bang to your buck. The minor disadvantage of adapting to heat stress will be more than made up by the added benefits over time that you will gain on the treadmill. You’ll adapt.
"I can tell you that a few professional world champions have run almost exclusively on the treadmill for long stretches and come off running faster than ever. "
Also an American marathon Olympic qualifier (not that this proves anything)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/news/2000/02/26/marathon_trials_ap/
Paula Radcliffe uses the treadmill a fair bit too…
I use the expression “training the red meat computer” to convey what you are doing in training a motion into your body.
It is an iterative process…wax on, wax off.
After running on the treadmill all winter my long run pace outside has improved about 30 sec per mile. I also feel that im able to run farther too. Some of this may just be pshychological and the rest pshychological. But whatever it is, it’s working for me.