I observed this on myself multiple times now, that when I train on the treadmill I get better at running on the treadmill but not outside.
This summer has been so hot that I ran on the treadmill a lot and once more didn’t seem to translate to outdoor running.
Not sure if I run more then and not recovering enough or it simply doesn’t work for me.
It’s annoying because it would be a great tool.
What’s your experience here?
If it’s really hot outside, you may find you seem to be slowing on outdoor runs but it’s actually the heat that’s killing your paces.
In general, if you get better on the TM, you should get better at outdoors provided you do just enough periodic outdoor runs to make sure you’re not losing your ground impact training.
I will add that some treadmills are particularly soft and just won’t give you the same impact loading training you’ll get from running outdoors, so you do have to do some of that, but I’ve found for myself it doesn’t take that much outdoor running to translate it.
Make sure you’re running plenty hard when it counts on the TM though. It’s easy to get lulled into perennial z2 TM running with not enough hard Z3 and Z4-5 work to build enough speed.
Good points. Had at least 1 outdoor run per week still, so should have been enough I guess. But especially intervals felt like I’m improving but only on the treadmill.
I mean probably I did improve a little bit outside but not nearly as in phases where I only ran outside.
Also always running with Stryd by power and heart rate. So intervals definitely were correctly paced.
But yeah… Not sure what part went wrong here
I actually think you should go harder on the TM than outdoors. Not crazy harder but def harder overall to compensate for the softer surface.
I haven’t used a Stryd myself, but I’d also be skeptical about expecting it to line up perfectly indoors/outdoors - I don’t even trust my powermeters to do that. So crank up the training on the TM where it’s more controlled and you can take more controlled risks.
You might also be just one of the many people who just like running harder outdoors, if so just go that route. Not all of us can be Lionel and get best results mostly indoors.
Yeah… But who doesn’t want to be Lionel though 
That’s exactly the thing… I’d love to run my hard runs on the treadmill because it just feels safer to push there. You can stop any time.
But well… seems like it’s not for me because I definitely pushed hard on the TM Also suspicious about PMs indoors/outdoors, that’s why I use Assioma Favero to always the same PM everywhere, which makes me sleep at night 
Hard to say much without knowing more details about your training/goals/what you consider improvement to be. Summer is maybe 3 months – how much better can you get at running in 3 months? Are you getting worse? Normal triathlon training doesn’t really lend itself to running improvement. You’re getting better at running fatigued but, often times, are not doing enough volume to get faster. If you were logging 70-80+ miles/week & running every day on the treadmill then I’d expect someone to challenge their running PBs, depending on age/experience. If you’re doing normal tri training & hitting 3-5 runs/week then most likely not. It can also get warm running inside depending on how optimized your setup is. & then it’s still September & weather hasn’t cooled completely. Again, depends on your training/goals/how you measure success.
Set the treadmill to 1* and trust the pace of the treadmill more than an outside device. Most big name brands are well calibrated. After your session, go out doors and do a few strides
Ironically I’ve seen more of the opposite. I tend to not see much improvement on the TM, but it translates to more improvement outdoor. I tend to use HR as my guide when using a TM more then pace.
As I’ve said before (and in the thread linked)
Rule #7: For every PT/MD/STer who says there is absolutely one single and perfect way to do anything , there is *another *PT/MD/STer who will say that way of doing whatever it may be, is completely and absolutely bullshit
Personally, I don’t use the 1% incline
But do whatever works for you, as there may or may not be any science to support it either way
Shoot, I run my Sole F80 on 3% incline for the vast majority of my runs.
I don’t do intervals as often on them since I like doing them outdoors, but if I am relegated indoors, I’ll actually do hill repeats at 6%-10% depending on length so I won’t trip the breaker (I’ve done it a few times before, but I’m not sure how fast/hard I need to go to do it.)
I’ll still get slightly sore legs from the outdoor impact if I do all-TM for awhile, so I try and get outdoors once per week or more (right now most of my runs are outdoors but will do a lot more TM running as winter approaches)
Someone on Scientific Triathlon a while back gave data to suggest the 1% incline was a myth & you get the same stimulus running indoors without any incline.
Never believed in it in the first place. I don’t want to spend hours on end on an elevated surface, seems completely unnatural to me. If running on the TM is easier than outside, run faster.
But well… Who am I to give any tips when my TM running doesn’t seem to translate😅
“Scientific Triathlon” sounds like a personal blog to sound scientific lol. a link would help. That 1% rule more for typical belt treadmills, woodways have a stiffer belt, and the manual curved one for sure is harder than outdoors
It’s a well known triathlon podcast where the host has on mostly PhD types focused in areas like exercise science
The 1% discussion is in here someplace
can i get a direct link to text instead of having listening through 20 90min podcasts? sheesh
Interesting that some folks see the treadmill as a safer place to run hard than outdoors. I feel the opposite – falling on the treadmill is much more dangerous than falling outdoors.
I don’t see how there is really any “risk” at all in outdoor running (ok, environmental factors like cars and bobcats and stuff maybe, is that what you mean?), I only see real risk introduced with the treadmill.
If you can’t sustain your target pace outdoors, you just… ran slower. If you can’t sustain the belt pace on a treadmill, you will get dropped off the back and seriously hurt, unless you manage to fiddle the controls in time to slow or stop. So in my mind the treadmill is the last place I’d want to be pushing my limits.
Mostly I mean hydration and fuel. But also VO2Max tests are done on TM and they test limits as well… I feel pretty safe with lifting myself up and putting my feet left and right to stop immediately. When running fast on a TM everybody should be comfortable with that first.
