So the hubby and I signed up for Augusta. I picked a 20 week plan and am experimenting with HR training prior to starting it. I used a calculator to guestimate my Max HR based on my average HR in a recent half marathon (8:58 pace AVG hr 148). The result was 180 which seems high.
So trial #1 was a Zone 2 9 mile run last night. I had to run at 12 minute pace to stay in Zone 2. Holy crap I was bored. I even face planted as I was shuffling my feet!
Is it typical for a HR based plan to place training runs at 3 min/mile slower than race pace?
Give it time and be patient. Your speeds will increase as you build efficiency at that HR. I started out running 12-13 min miles to keep it in zone2 and now, 8 months later, I am running 9 min or faster miles at the same HR. Be patient and trust the system. Good luck!
So the hubby and I signed up for Augusta. I picked a 20 week plan and am experimenting with HR training prior to starting it. I used a calculator to guesstimate my Max HR based on my average HR in a recent half marathon (8:58 pace AVG hr 148). The result was 180 which seems high.
So trial #1 was a Zone 2 9 mile run last night. I had to run at 12 minute pace to stay in Zone 2. Holy crap I was bored. I even face planted as I was shuffling my feet!
Is it typical for a HR based plan to place training runs at 3 min/mile slower than race pace?
JOOC, what did your various zones come out to be??? What are your HR ranges for Z1, Z2, 3, 4, and Z5??? I am pretty familiar with the zone business but my impression is that not every zone program is the same.
Something seems a little off- 2 minutes slower/mile is typical…going toward three min/mile slower?
I’d be leery of using a 1/2mar HR to extrapolate to maxHR estimate. Better to look at a 10k distance time trial and base the HR values from that (secondary to total time and pace) as a theoretical threshold (note- not max HR). Repeat your 10k at the 10 week point, reevaluate your ranges. 20 weeks is a good timeframe to prep, so build your volume like it appears your intent is.
JOOC, what did your various zones come out to be??? What are your HR ranges for Z1, Z2, 3, 4, and Z5??? I am pretty familiar with the zone business but my impression is that not every zone program is the same.
I used my 910 to calculate them. Could be I need to use a different method. Off hand (watch is not with me), I remember that the Z2 cutoff was 130. The 148 for my half would have been a Z4 based on these calculations. I didn’t feel like I was making that hard of an effort in my half marathon.
Something seems a little off- 2 minutes slower/mile is typical…going toward three min/mile slower?
I’d be leery of using a 1/2mar HR to extrapolate to maxHR estimate. Better to look at a 10k distance time trial and base the HR values from that (secondary to total time and pace) as a theoretical threshold (note- not max HR). Repeat your 10k at the 10 week point, reevaluate your ranges. 20 weeks is a good timeframe to prep, so build your volume like it appears your intent is.
Good luck
So that would be based more on LT? I looked at some of Friel’s calculations last night based on a guestimate of 160 as my LT. I liked the looks of the zones much better. The high end of Z2 was 142 which would have put me in Z3 for the half. We do need to do a better test and I probably should have waited to do so, but we have a race coming up this weekend and curiosity got the best of me. I didn’t want to put in a hard effort to gather data. It was certainly mission accomplished on the easy effort last night. Either way, it is obviously a good idea to figure all of this out before the plan starts!
My coach set the heart rate zones from an approximately 1-hour effort, which happened to be a 15k race at my speeds. Sort of an “FTP” for running, so to speak. From there I was given a chart with my numbers.
First Z1 and Z2 runs were boring as hell. I felt like I was shuffling nowhere. Fast forward a few months later and I was running smooth, easy 5min/km (8/mile?) day-in, day-out in lower Z2, peaking at lower Z3 on sustained hills. Trust it, run often and run easy.
1st, go do a 30 minute all out run time trial.
2nd, google for Joe friel Run hr zones, they are based off of your average hr for the last 20 minutes of that test.
3rd, reset your garmin zones to the ones you calculate.
Using max hr to set training zones is sub optimal
Pulling a max hr out of your ass to use with the above makes it pretty much useless.
along with this though, realize that whatever plan or article you are reading telling you to run in zone 2, that author has an idea of what zone 2 is. You always have to know how THAT person is defining zone 2 before you go and try to implement it.
You also might have under performed in you 1/2 marathon or been under trained. So you zones are a little off.
I find that Zone 2 isn’t hard… unless I’m out of shape, but it’s not easy either.
Zone 1 is easy conversation pace.
Zone 2 you can talk in complete sentences but may have some pauses.
Zone 3, you can talk in phrases, but there’s some discomfort. Breathing becomes more steady.
Zone 4, few words at a time at best
Zone 5…talk? Lucky to get a 1 second smile. That’s VO2 max territory.
I do most of my running at the top of zone 1. But that opinion does vary.
I also personally discourage running below 12:00 pace as you get into that grey zone of shuffling…where you might as well walk briskly at 14:00-15:00. I think 15-12 is no mans land and you might as well alternate run/walk.
So the hubby and I signed up for Augusta. I picked a 20 week plan and am experimenting with HR training prior to starting it. I used a calculator to guestimate my Max HR based on my average HR in a recent half marathon (8:58 pace AVG hr 148). The result was 180 which seems high.
So trial #1 was a Zone 2 9 mile run last night. I had to run at 12 minute pace to stay in Zone 2. Holy crap I was bored. I even face planted as I was shuffling my feet!
Is it typical for a HR based plan to place training runs at 3 min/mile slower than race pace?
That’s amazing to me that you’re HR and speed are what they are compared to zone 2. I’m in a similar position and had been wondering the same thing. Although I’ve never had the patience to really stick with true zone 2 running i have gotten faster, but I have a coach now, who’s forcing me into those slow speeds.
My most recent half marathon was a HIM and I was almost as fast as you (9:03) but my HR was probably mid 180’s on average.
My field test had my LT at 186 most recently. So my Z2 running is around 12-13 min miles.
Horribly frustratingly slow, but Based on yours, and the next comment I feel I’m in good company
Make sure your zones are correct and keep at it. As others have said make sure you have a clear understanding of what Zone 2 is for that plan. For example, my zone 1 is probably close/ similar to mosts definition of zone 2.
You will get faster. I started in the 8-9min/ mile range and dropped significantly from there.
So the hubby and I signed up for Augusta. I picked a 20 week plan and am experimenting with HR training prior to starting it. I used a calculator to guestimate my Max HR based on my average HR in a recent half marathon (8:58 pace AVG hr 148). The result was 180 which seems high.
So trial #1 was a Zone 2 9 mile run last night. I had to run at 12 minute pace to stay in Zone 2. Holy crap I was bored. I even face planted as I was shuffling my feet!
Is it typical for a HR based plan to place training runs at 3 min/mile slower than race pace?
If you use intensity zones to guide your training it is really important that you are honest and keep the easy easy, even of you think it is slow.
My speed at zone 1 is a lot slower than my brother in running. He is in better shape. (I still kill him on xc-skis)
When I coach xc-skiing I use these intensity zones.
You have to stick to the zones in your program.
I wouldn’t approach it as if it was “LT” but more of a performance based value. If you look at it as an LT, there is a tendency to focus more on the HR rather than the time. You don’t race for HR, you race for time. Note the HR and loosely track trends, but make sure to have speed and effort-based intensity ranges to correspond with the HR. HR as a single value is not enough to base a range off of.
However, what you’re saying about the corresponding “zone” for HR based on Friel sounds a little more in line.
It’s the best approach overall to keep it easy for the endurance runs, and if you have a difficult time mentally accepting the pace, add in some strides at the end of a quality endurance run. Good luck in your race this weekend.
Thanks Everyone for the inputs and info! Rob, the training plan is time based, I decided NOT to display pace on the 910 the other night and I think I will leave it that way. I appreciated the input from others regarding patience as well. It really helps to know that you stuck to the plan and reaped benefits. I did investigate and verified that the plan author uses the 30 minute test. So I’ll get on it next week.
I was back up to speed after about 6 weeks (it meant occasionally walking hills). After 3 months I was faster. After about 6 weeks I added some speed work back in. It was tough going, but turned out to be well worth it.
