Hello,
Living up in the great white north, and having gotten so much snow so early (Ottawa), I’m constantly running in the snow. That in itself is ok I’ve learned to live with it, but I’m trying to get certain workouts in and the results are misleading because I’m slipping and sliding so much.
I may run a 10k in the snow at a 4:40 pace but it feels like ~ 4:20 pace because of all the slipping and sliding. If I’m following a plan which sais run 10k at 4:30 pace, what should I do? If I run it at that pace in the snow, then I’ll be exerting more than I should for the workout, but if I run it slower then I’m not getting in the proper workout (or am I?).
What do others do? Do you go based on what you think the exertion should be for that workout and disregard the pace or disregard the exertion and go for the pace, or …
For me, depending on the depth of the snow, I run about 20 seconds per mile slower at the same RPE and HR. It’s far from scientific, but that’s what I’ve noticed.
Bonhomme, who are you that you are are running 4:40 per K in the snow. Slow it down and just go by effort…depending on the snow and footing 5:40 pace might feel harder than 4:00. Don’t be a hero and try to win some self imposed training race in December and get injured.
I’m dealing with the exact situation you are describing. I also live in Ottawa, and normally do my easy runs in 4:35-4:40 kms (this is my Friel Zone 2). I’ve noticed that my pace, depending on the snow depth and slickness, will drop as much as 45 sec/km.
I just go by hr and throw the pace out the window. I would also recommend that if you have a 10k run planned on the schedule, and you are running in snowy conditions, that you cut it to 9km (should be a similar time).
Or you could just skip the run entirely like I did yesterday and go for a ski in the Gats for 20k or so…
BTW, I’m writing this looking out the window, and of course it’s snowing again…Should be a messy slow one.
Bonhomme,
I also leave in Ottawa and I go by feel and does not worry too much about the pace. Because it also boils down how much snow you have on the ground, is it fresh snow (the best), packed, icy, mushy, etc…
The great things about running in the snow is (I believe)
It gives you fanstatic natural cushioning. Suddenly the asphalt becomes a “trail”
Gives you a greater workout, you leg and core muscles are a lot more challenged because they need to make micro, some times macro :), adjustments with every footsteep.
It also you to focus on form, being light on your feet/quick
Each time I do “repeats” on paths that are not plowed (i.e. 20/30 cm of snow - probably more), I am “fried” @ the end and I love it and of course my pace is a lot slower…
As you know, the NCM is at the end of may and I’m targeting a time of 3:10 (my current PR is 3:17). Training will start in about 4 weeks but I’m trying to maintain the shape I had in the fall to start the training (I ran a Nov 10k race in 42:11).
If I slow down my pace to much I’m concerned I wont be in good enough shape to start the training required for that time goal and then wont be able to make that time. no? What approach would you suggest?
Also living in a (sometimes) snowy area, just get your runs in and don’t worry about pace. Go by RPE. If you need to, get on the treadmill once or twice a week for some pace work.
Wow,
I am also looking @ NCM @ end of May. I have a very similar PR than you 3:18 (in October) however a faster 10K 40:50 (back in August).
My goal for NCM is sub 3:10 and depending on training and other factors maybe (big maybe) sub 3h
I am currently running @ 5:00/5:10 pace, with tentatively one run (hilly) in the 4:50…
I am trying to avegare 7h per week with a rest week here and there @ 5h (part of 100 days/100 runs challenge)
If I were you I would slow down, build a strong solid/base and worry about speed/tempo in March/April.
Thanks everyone. It looks like you all agree to slow it down for now and concentrate on the effort, so that what I’ll do. After all, how can so many ST’ers be wrong
Running in the snow is equivilent to–well–running on the road or on grass or trails. Running is running and the actual speed you travel is largely irrelevant. I would guess I probably average between 8-9 minute miles since I run largely off-road in dirt and sand, often in pretty warm temperatures.
Despite that, I ran well under six minute miles in my last tri of the year and actually had the fastest run split of the race. Having grown up in the mountains and trained in Logan, Utah during college I would not try to do anything but run outside during the winter. Save the “workouts” for better weather or an indoor track/treadmill.
Chad
Bonhomme, if you are a 3:17 marathoner, then you better slow it down now. Fred is on the right track.
Starting in April, you’ll have lots of time to do lots of runs at 4:20-4:40 per K pace when the footing is good and you have 4 months of base. No point being a hero in December and getting injured. The bottom line is that when you are >6 months away from your A race, you can never run too slow, but you can certainly run too fast and quickly join the disabled list.
I just got back from a run in the snow - it wasn’t too bad, but I hit a white-out for about 10min. You gotta love ottawa weather.
So here are the stats: Avg pace for my 10k run was 5:04/km - hr for this pace 68% of max
For the same run 2 days ago in dry, clear conditions: Avg pace 4:39, hr was 69% of max. So, that’s about 25 sec per km difference for snow covered roads (maybe 2 cm).
For everyone in Ottawa and Montreal, apparently we’ve got a northeaster on the way and could see 30 to 60 cms of snow between Sunday and Monday. Forget running… get the snowshoes out!!! And people were complaining about the grooming in the Gats… ha!
I live in Montréal and my average in the run 100 times in 100 days is at 5:12 right now.
That is a mix of light snow, deep snow, clean roads and treadmill (which realy ups the average).
My marathon PB is a bit better than yours but there is no way I can run anything near 4:20-4:40
you mention on anything but clean surfaces. I agree with Fred_h & Dev, slow down, don’t worry
about it, get some volume and if the snow forces you to go 5:20-5:30 so be it. Get the bulk of
your work done outside, if in Feb. you need to tack on some speed and the roads are a mess that
day use a treadmill, they’re great to have when conditions force their use just nowhere near as much
fun as playing outside.
For everyone in Ottawa and Montreal, apparently we’ve got a northeaster on the way and could see 30 to 60 cms of snow between Sunday and Monday. Forget running… get the snowshoes out!!! And people were complaining about the grooming in the Gats… ha!
Ducoach
Member of Guru Cartel, Eh! since’01
I just heard that too (about the snow coming)
And for the record, the grooming in the Gats has been poor this year (no way am I posting that in tri-rudy though :-). There is no way it will prevent me from skiing though.
I was out there last night and I could have cared less what the grooming was like - it was just beautiful on ridge rd.
“For me, depending on the depth of the snow, I run about 20 seconds per mile slower at the same RPE and HR. It’s far from scientific, but that’s what I’ve noticed.”
That sounds like it is INdependent on snow depth. Or perhaps you meant the typical or average depth you run in.
For those of you running a spring marathon.
If your running 5:00 - 5:20 /km now, just out of curiosity, what would you expect your 10k pace to be Feb 1st and what would you expect your race pace to be in the spring?
My simplistic thinking tells me I can only improve so much during training, so I’d better be in good shape when I start. But hey, I injured myself and couldn’t run for 6 weeks following my 3:17 marathon, so that shows what I know.
