We all know that aerodynamics matters. We’re on Slowtwitch, after all. We swim and cycle in lycra, so there’s not much left to optimise on the run. Apart from trucker hats…
So why do elite runners participate in track and road events in their baggies? Most (but not all) are in outfits that look little different to what was worn in the 1970s.
Is the heat dissipation and freer movement worth the loss in aerodynamic advantage in the ~20-40km/h range? Given that long distance events are won by seconds and short distance events by fractions of seconds, and a runner presents a large frontal area, surely a few watts of free speed would be worth it.
I was thinking about this the other day. I’ve always ran running races in knee length spandex shorts. I realized that I don’t recall what other people were wearing. I hate the way board shorts or classic “runners shorts” flap around. Am I out of touch?
Looking forward to some of the responses to your question…
Maximum possible improvement of 6% due to clothing choices. A reduction of 2% yields you a whopping 6 seconds over a marathon. You have to remember that air resistance is not linear, so at the speeds a runner is traveling (about 12mph for elites) the aerodynamic drag is negligible. Where as cycling aerodynamic drag takes over as the primary variable of resistance around 18mph, a speed nearly all of us are capable of reaching.
Efforts at aerodynamics might pay off for some runners, but the negatives (likely significant heat issues and restrictive clothing) are not outweighed by the results. For cycling some effort at aerodynamics is beneficial to nearly everyone.
At first I opened the thread because I thought it was funny, but thinking about it, an elite runner at about 12 mph has legs that move forward at about 24mph. It’s possible that shin & shoe aero gains could be add up to something meaningful when competing at world class levels.
Maximum possible improvement of 6% due to clothing choices. A reduction of 2% yields you a whopping 6 seconds over a marathon. You have to remember that air resistance is not linear, so at the speeds a runner is traveling (about 12mph for elites) the aerodynamic drag is negligible. Where as cycling aerodynamic drag takes over as the primary variable of resistance around 18mph, a speed nearly all of us are capable of reaching.
Efforts at aerodynamics might pay off for some runners, but the negatives (likely significant heat issues and restrictive clothing) are not outweighed by the results. For cycling some effort at aerodynamics is beneficial to nearly everyone.
^^^^This.
The savings are so minimal that no one is willing to lose any comfort/thermal over it. Some sprinters have taken to lycra (even some lycra hoodies), but they are going >20mph (and no thermal issues in a 10sec. race)…and even then the savings wasn’t meaningful in races.
When I ran cross country and track they would say that you conserve 8% of your energy by running behind someone and letting them lead. On a windy day, that % would increase.
About .83 seconds for a mile, per ounce less weight. So let’s say you choose running shoes that are 3oz less per shoe. Total that’s 6oz X .83 X 26.2. (Marathon) = 130 seconds. That’s 2:10 faster!
Now shaving 3oz off per shoe is a lot because usually that means you’re sacrificing comfort going lighter. Thankfully the Skechers GoRun4 shoes are extremely lightweight without sacrificing comfort. My shoes weigh 8.6oz at a size 10.5. I think a size 9 they are 6.8 oz. This show helped me run a 2:47 in comfort with no blisters at Ironman Cozumel.
At first I opened the thread because I thought it was funny, but thinking about it, an elite runner at about 12 mph has legs that move forward at about 24mph. It’s possible that shin & shoe aero gains could be add up to something meaningful when competing at world class levels.
Also keep in mind that the assumption is “still air”. Which is more or less valid on a track in a stadium. But go outdoors for the marathon and you could be running 12 mph into a 15 mph wind. Suddenly the clothing is moving at 27 mph relative to the wind. Add to that the swing of the leg and parts of the leg are moving much faster into the wind. So I bet it matters “more” than some runners realize.
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
At IMAZ, in '07 the wind was ugly. On the run, I found myself drafting on the longish uphill on the north side of the ‘lake’ and on the 2 mile stretch which was slightly downhill, on the south side. I’d never done THAT before. I could feel when I was in the ‘wind shadow.’
(Too bad, it’s not allowed on the bike. At times, on the last lap, when the wind shifted as I turned toward town, I was going 12mph on the return to town, which is slightly downhill. That was frustrating. That last lap was WAY slower than the first two.)
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
Ha! I’ve been thinking that for years but so far it hasn’t happened.
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
Dev, you know that their clothing is restricted by the rules of the sport.
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
Ha! I’ve been thinking that for years but so far it hasn’t happened.
The top guys actually have a gentlemen’s agreement to “keep it baggy”. They know if someone shows up in Lycra they all will have to, and from a personal and marketing standpoint they don’t want it to happen.
Interesting link. Wind tunnel testing is notoriously fickle. Without knowing their protocols and clothing choices (from… 1986) it’s hard to know just how robust their findings are. 2% wind resistance reduction isn’t much, 6% is considerably more.
That is some interesting studies, it makes me wonder if there’s a cross over point where heat penalties cancel out aerodynamic benefits (maybe around 5km?). I think the skier and skater examples might not be correlative given the differences in speed and body positioning (especially the speed skaters). I would be pretty interested to see something from the people who developed the sprinter suits. I remember those were huge for about one Olympics and never saw them again.
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
Ha! I’ve been thinking that for years but so far it hasn’t happened.
The top guys actually have a gentlemen’s agreement to “keep it baggy”. They know if someone shows up in Lycra they all will have to, and from a personal and marketing standpoint they don’t want it to happen.
Some guy is going to just think, “screw the gentleman’s agreement…I am showing up with less baggy stuff”. I was thinking the same thing about pro hockey players too…at the speeds they go, if they actually had a bit smaller parachutes, over the course of a game pushing 10-15 less watts all game is going to mean more of a spring in the legs in the final 5 minutes…it’s just physics.
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
Ha! I’ve been thinking that for years but so far it hasn’t happened.
The top guys actually have a gentlemen’s agreement to “keep it baggy”. They know if someone shows up in Lycra they all will have to, and from a personal and marketing standpoint they don’t want it to happen.
Some guy is going to just think, “screw the gentleman’s agreement…I am showing up with less baggy stuff”. I was thinking the same thing about pro hockey players too…at the speeds they go, if they actually had a bit smaller parachutes, over the course of a game pushing 10-15 less watts all game is going to mean more of a spring in the legs in the final 5 minutes…it’s just physics.
It’s a “cartel” (so innately unstable), but what’s probably keeping it together atm is that none of the sponsors want the lycra-clad guy (they would much rather have someone who wears what they can sell).
I wondered if there was a UCI/FINA-like situation in which they were banned or restricted in some way. That doesn’t seem to be the case. This is the entirety of the IAAF’s rules on clothing.
in all events, athletes must wear clothing which is clean, and
designed and worn so as not to be objectionable. the clothing must
be made of a material which is non-transparent even if wet. Athletes
must not wear clothing which could impede the view of the Judges.
Athletes’ vests should have the same colour on the front and back.
At all competitions under Rules 1.1(a), (b), (c), (f) and (g), and
when representing their Member under Rules 1.1(d) and (h), athletes
shall participate in the uniform clothing approved by their national
governing body. the victory Ceremony and any lap
IAAF competition rules.
So long as you’re not showing your nipples, you’re okay.
We all know that aerodynamics matters. We’re on Slowtwitch, after all. We swim and cycle in lycra, so there’s not much left to optimise on the run. Apart from trucker hats…
So why do elite runners participate in track and road events in their baggies? Most (but not all) are in outfits that look little different to what was worn in the 1970s.
Is the heat dissipation and freer movement worth the loss in aerodynamic advantage in the ~20-40km/h range? Given that long distance events are won by seconds and short distance events by fractions of seconds, and a runner presents a large frontal area, surely a few watts of free speed would be worth it.
I don’t know about heat loss and movement restriction, but running into a headwind can definitely slow you down. I tucked in behind a guy on the last couple miles of a triathlon because we were both running about the same speed into a strong headwind. It felt like about 30% easier behind him than next to. With just 100 yards to go, I pulled around him and took the win. I could feel a huge difference between being behind him vs. pulling around to the side and front. Afterwards, he said he was giving it his all but was just worn out.
TL;DR - Running in no to low wind? Probably doesn’t matter. Running into strong headwind? Aero does matter. What to do about it? Still out for debate. (But draft if available.)
The top guys actually have a gentlemen’s agreement to “keep it baggy”. They know if someone shows up in Lycra they all will have to, and from a personal and marketing standpoint they don’t want it to happen.
Some guy is going to just think, “screw the gentleman’s agreement…I am showing up with less baggy stuff”. I was thinking the same thing about pro hockey players too…at the speeds they go, if they actually had a bit smaller parachutes, over the course of a game pushing 10-15 less watts all game is going to mean more of a spring in the legs in the final 5 minutes…it’s just physics.
It isn’t a gentleman’s agreement, it is actual rules. I’m not even a skier and I knew that. We’ve had that debate on here before.
*2705.6 Competition Clothing. SBX competition suits must be two piece – pants and separate top. Form fitting speed or downhill suites are not permitted. Non protruding body protection and padding is recommended. Protective equipment i.e. back protection must be worn on the body. No straps, fastening devices or other methods can be used to tighten the suit material closer to the body. *
Same rule for any of the parallel (head to head) races. The slalom is a similar rule, but shin guards are allowed (rule 2107)
But the guys that really baffle me are the ski cross, moguls, snowboarders, snowboard cross. The moment someone shows up in skin tight lyrca and starts winning all these guys will clue in. They are racing speed events in parachutes!!!
If it’s like BMX, there are pinch test for those suits. You’re not allowed to wear anything tight. It ruins the look of the sports, apparently.
