RS 250 Greatest Guitarists - What's the worst picks you noticed

The Coffee Shop
41

And anyone who tells you Prince is the 2nd greatest guitarist of all time is trying too hard.

I agree, but it seems to be quite the trend right now. A Super Bowl performance in the rain, an untimely death, and a new generation of contrarians and Prince has gone from a guy who played better than a lot of us expected, to one of the greatest of all time.

I should also add a fake Eric Clapton quote to the equation.

I’ll probably get a ton of crap for this, but Prince is vastly overrated. Can I get an amen?

Not likely but you can get a F you. :wink:

42

And anyone who tells you Prince is the 2nd greatest guitarist of all time is trying too hard.

I agree, but it seems to be quite the trend right now. A Super Bowl performance in the rain, an untimely death, and a new generation of contrarians and Prince has gone from a guy who played better than a lot of us expected, to one of the greatest of all time.

I should also add a fake Eric Clapton quote to the equation.

I’ll probably get a ton of crap for this, but Prince is vastly overrated. Can I get an amen?

Not likely but you can get a F you. :wink:

One man’s Amen is another man’s F you.

43

And anyone who tells you Prince is the 2nd greatest guitarist of all time is trying too hard.

I agree, but it seems to be quite the trend right now. A Super Bowl performance in the rain, an untimely death, and a new generation of contrarians and Prince has gone from a guy who played better than a lot of us expected, to one of the greatest of all time.

I should also add a fake Eric Clapton quote to the equation.

I’ll probably get a ton of crap for this, but Prince is vastly overrated. Can I get an amen?

Not likely but you can get a F you. :wink:

One man’s Amen is another man’s F you.

Prince is simultaneously the most underrated guitarist of all time, and the most overrated. He went from being a person that people didn’t even think of when they thought of a great guitarist (left completely off of two Rolling Stones lists), to one of the greatest ever.

IMO, he’s somewhere in between.

44

Keith Urban above Paul Simon?
Eric Clapton only 35th?
Brian May only 33rd?
Randy Rhoads would be higher than 20th if he hadn’t died so young
Not really sure that 5-7th place deserve such high spots, and would put Prince higher

Higher than 14th? You mean Prince should be closer to #1? Or further away from #1?

He wasn’t even in the top 100 in the 2003 and 2010 lists. If you mean he should be closer to #1, can you please explain why you think that?

https://youtu.be/...LnHAkS9hPp&t=208

I like Prince too, but that’s the single video everyone shows when they argue for him. You’d think there would be countless examples if you want to put him at the top of the list.

There are. But this one just happens to exemplify what he was capable of. Unfortunately for him, I don’t think he got to show off just how good he was with the music he was writing.
It’s not like you can play like that without knowing how to play like that.

Queue that video up to where the video starts, play it, and then close your eyes and listen to the solo.

It’s actually not very good.

And if that doesn’t convince you, then listen the Eruption, You Shook Me All Night Long, & Stairway to Heaven, and then go back and listen (not watch) to that Prince solo again.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved that performance. I thought it was epic the first time I had seen it. But there’s so much about that that made it epic, and it wasn’t really his playing.

45

Keith Urban above Paul Simon?
Eric Clapton only 35th?
Brian May only 33rd?
Randy Rhoads would be higher than 20th if he hadn’t died so young
Not really sure that 5-7th place deserve such high spots, and would put Prince higher

Higher than 14th? You mean Prince should be closer to #1? Or further away from #1?

He wasn’t even in the top 100 in the 2003 and 2010 lists. If you mean he should be closer to #1, can you please explain why you think that?

https://youtu.be/...LnHAkS9hPp&t=208

I like Prince too, but that’s the single video everyone shows when they argue for him. You’d think there would be countless examples if you want to put him at the top of the list.

There are. But this one just happens to exemplify what he was capable of. Unfortunately for him, I don’t think he got to show off just how good he was with the music he was writing.
It’s not like you can play like that without knowing how to play like that.

Queue that video up to where the video starts, play it, and then close your eyes and listen to the solo.

It’s actually not very good.

And if that doesn’t convince you, then listen the Eruption, You Shook Me All Night Long, & Stairway to Heaven, and then go back and listen (not watch) to that Prince solo again.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved that performance. I thought it was epic the first time I had seen it. But there’s so much about that that made it epic, and it wasn’t really his playing.

That solo is so clean it sparkles.
But I get it, armchair QBs on Tuesday…

46

You may enjoy Rick Beato going off of he rails about this list. Especially about those that were left off of it.

https://youtu.be/YkjFAcJChXc?si=LRgZgD8G1vz2myJr

47

Always liked Terry Kath, saw him live.
https://youtu.be/FKHATc9oLjk?si=2F1B-IVV9AllcoM3

48

Keith Urban above Paul Simon?
Eric Clapton only 35th?
Brian May only 33rd?
Randy Rhoads would be higher than 20th if he hadn’t died so young
Not really sure that 5-7th place deserve such high spots, and would put Prince higher

Higher than 14th? You mean Prince should be closer to #1? Or further away from #1?

He wasn’t even in the top 100 in the 2003 and 2010 lists. If you mean he should be closer to #1, can you please explain why you think that?

https://youtu.be/...LnHAkS9hPp&t=208

I like Prince too, but that’s the single video everyone shows when they argue for him. You’d think there would be countless examples if you want to put him at the top of the list.

https://youtu.be/…?si=avWZdSXRCriwpzHi

Yep, again, I’m a fan, and I’m not saying you can’t dig up examples, just that when people advocate for Prince, they always show that one performance. I’ve posted it myself.

Again everyone talks about Prince’s super bowl performance. Eh it was alright but for sheer fun and showmanship I would rate it behind Bruno Mars super bowl performance.

49

You may enjoy Rick Beato going off of he rails about this list. Especially about those that were left off of it.

https://youtu.be/YkjFAcJChXc?si=LRgZgD8G1vz2myJr

Thanks for that.

Before reading through the Rolling Stone list, I wrote down the names of some guitarists I considered most deserving to be there. Tommy Emmanuel was another I was surprised and disappointed to see omitted. Great to see Beato namecheck Tommy.

One of the most outstanding gigs I’ve seen was Tommy and his late brother Phil playing at an old pub in Sydney. It was literally packed to the rafters, with patrons having climbed onto the entry door alcoves where they were squashed up there against the ceiling. The synergy of their playing was otherworldly. the crowd vacillated between crazy and spellbound.

50

Pleased to see many of my favourite guitarists on the list; Steve Howe (Yes #123), Adrian Belew (King Crimson #118), Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple #75), Robert Fripp (King Crimson #59).

I was hoping to see John Williams included, if only for his sublime work with the British-Australian classical/prog rock fusion band Sky, but soon realised classical guitarists were outside the remit of the list.

How some of the names made that list at the expense of Allan Holdsworth, I have no fucking idea. Allan Holdsworth - Wikipedia

No one knows Allan Holdsworth except the most die hard guitarists and the cycling community of Southern California. Fun fact, one of his solo songs was dedicated to Tullio Campagnolo.

Another thought I had was should someone be on a “greatest” list if almost no one has even heard of you?

Not all opinions are equal*, hence popular opinion or knowledge may often not be worth much.

Vernon Reid of Living Color described Holdsworth’s omission as “pure ignorance”. Holdsworth is held in high esteem for good reason. Creativity, technical excellence, influence, virtuosity.

Torrey, thanks heaps for article of Holdsworth. I wish I knew he was such a keen cyclist when he played Sydney circa 1990. It would’ve been so cool to arrange to take him on a ride.

A group of us took John Howard (US cyclist & triathlete, not Aussie PM) out for a few rides around then. He was astounded by our local cycling routes.

  • My opinion included. I’m not a muso, let alone a guitarist.
51

Pleased to see many of my favourite guitarists on the list; Steve Howe (Yes #123), Adrian Belew (King Crimson #118), Richie Blackmore (Deep Purple #75), Robert Fripp (King Crimson #59).

I was hoping to see John Williams included, if only for his sublime work with the British-Australian classical/prog rock fusion band Sky, but soon realised classical guitarists were outside the remit of the list.

How some of the names made that list at the expense of Allan Holdsworth, I have no fucking idea. Allan Holdsworth - Wikipedia

No one knows Allan Holdsworth except the most die hard guitarists and the cycling community of Southern California. Fun fact, one of his solo songs was dedicated to Tullio Campagnolo.

Another thought I had was should someone be on a “greatest” list if almost no one has even heard of you?

Not all opinions are equal*, hence popular opinion or knowledge may often not be worth much.

Vernon Reid of Living Color described Holdsworth’s omission as “pure ignorance”. Holdsworth is held in high esteem for good reason. Creativity, technical excellence, influence, virtuosity.

Torrey, thanks heaps for article of Holdsworth. I wish I knew he was such a keen cyclist when he played Sydney circa 1990. It would’ve been so cool to arrange to take him on a ride.

A group of us took John Howard (US cyclist & triathlete, not Aussie PM) out for a few rides around then. He was astounded by our local cycling routes.

  • My opinion included. I’m not a muso, let alone a guitarist.

I’d make a distinction between the “best” and the “greatest”. To me anyway, greatness implies widespread fame, notoriety, album sales, etc.

I’d guess there are shit ton of really good guitarists out there who could give others a run for being the “best”, but almost no one has heard of them, so wouldn’t figure anywhere on a list of the greatest.

52

I’d guess there are shit ton of really good guitarists out there who could give others a run for being the “best”, but almost no one has heard of them, so wouldn’t figure anywhere on a list of the greatest.

There are likely plenty of phenomenal studio musicians out there.

I’ve certainly seen my share of off the charts heavy metal guitarists that you’d only know about if you were really into the genre. BUT, is the band doesn’t gain notoriety, then yes, no one’s going to know of those people.

EDIT: but this goes back to my point. It’s not enough to be a great player. You need to be both a great writer, and prolific writer. And you are truly all three, then people will know who you are.

53

Keith Urban above Paul Simon?
Eric Clapton only 35th?
Brian May only 33rd?
Randy Rhoads would be higher than 20th if he hadn’t died so young
Not really sure that 5-7th place deserve such high spots, and would put Prince higher

Higher than 14th? You mean Prince should be closer to #1? Or further away from #1?

He wasn’t even in the top 100 in the 2003 and 2010 lists. If you mean he should be closer to #1, can you please explain why you think that?

https://youtu.be/...LnHAkS9hPp&t=208

I like Prince too, but that’s the single video everyone shows when they argue for him. You’d think there would be countless examples if you want to put him at the top of the list.

https://youtu.be/…?si=avWZdSXRCriwpzHi

Yep, again, I’m a fan, and I’m not saying you can’t dig up examples, just that when people advocate for Prince, they always show that one performance. I’ve posted it myself.

Again everyone talks about Prince’s super bowl performance. Eh it was alright but for sheer fun and showmanship I would rate it behind Bruno Mars super bowl performance.

I rewatched the performance recently. Again, solo work was not anything amazing, though I give him props for actually playing. Showmanship was top notch, though you are correct, not as good as Bruno Mars. I honestly wonder if it didn’t rain if we’d be talking about it.

Again, I don’t want to dump on the guy. I think it was a great show that he put on, I think he’s an amazing talent, and a pretty darn god guitarist. I think he has the “IT” factor that makes people want to think that he’s truly better than he is.

It would be like if in 20 years people were saying that Taylor Swift was one of the greatest dancers and singers of all time. Definitely not, but she does have the “IT” factor, what ever “IT” is.

54

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this. We’re talking about great guitar players.

Fame, notoriety, record sales or anything else you’ve paid credence to in your posts are irrelevant if the musicianship of the person’s guitar playing has had little to do the with success of their music. And there’s a few such musicians whose place on that list to whom that can be applied. Playing a commercially successful songs on guitar does not make someone one of the world’s greatest ever guitar players.

Seriously, how many jazz, fusion or prog rock guitarists can you name who have achieved “widespread fame, notoriety and record sales”? Very rarely do individual musicians in those genres attain the same level of public attention as pop or more fashionable genres. And that’s where so many “great” musicians reside, because they choose to play creative and challenging music. Does that somehow make those musicians less worthy of being considered among the “greatest”?

You’ve responded to a post about Alan Holdsworth, who was infinitely more than simply “a really good guitarist” among a “shit ton” of others of comparable ability.

Holdsworth was unique. Yes, quite literally, one of a kind.

Nearly 40 years after the release of UK’s titular album, Ty Tabor, (look him up), cited it as the most essential guitar album, saying of Holdsworth’s playing, “I have never heard of anybody think about playing guitar the way he plays on that record”. Holy crap! Not even did anyone play like him, but no one even considered the possibility of playing like Holdsworth.

Aside from musicianship, it’s about legacy and influence, and possessing innovation and creativity to expand both the vocabulary of the instrument and technique with which it is played.

What makes someone a great guitarist is so much more than playing a guitar and being famous for selling records, or than being able to replicate the style and play the music of those who preceded you, it’s about so much more.

55

John Petrucci (Dream Theater, Liquid Tension Experiment) was another negligent omission.

Besides his technical proficiency as a guitarist and Dream Theater’s spawning influence of prog metal, his Ernie Ball-Music Man JP6 guitar is the second highest selling signature model guitar of all time, surpassed by only the Gibson Les Paul. Beyond the indicator of substantial album sales, there’s evidently a lot of people listening to his guitar playing.

56

Fame, notoriety, record sales or anything else you’ve paid credence to in your posts are irrelevant if the musicianship of the person’s guitar playing has had little to do the with success of their music. And there’s a few such musicians whose place on that list to whom that can be applied. Playing a commercially successful songs on guitar does not make someone one of the world’s greatest ever guitar players.

There’s another hobby I’m in where we’ve universally defined with a filling up a pint of beer analogy. You have several small glasses that you can fill, each representing a different category. If you can pour them all into the pint glass and fill it up, then you are one of the greats.

In the case of guitar playing, I defined my four smaller glasses earlier:

Technical playing
Creativity/writing
Body of work
Influence/popularity

Again, all IMO. Some guitarists can make it on the list if they really are lacking in one or more categories, but only if their other categories are at the top of the charts. Regarding popularity, I agree that only being popular isn’t good enough. I also agree that not being popular would not be a disqualifier. But I do think it is a factor.

And ultimately, this is only how I personally define a “greatest of all time” guitarist. At the end of the day, we can always reword titles to make them mean whatever we want. “Greatest technical player.” “Greatest popular player.” Etc.

57

SPIN magazine - Prince 2nd greatest rock star of all time.

That’s saying a lot about a man who was relevant as a musician from '82-'86 and didn’t even play rock music.

And for those who think he was relevant longer than that, I would agree. From '82-'86 he was relevant as a musician. Post '86 he was relevant as a guy who used to be relevant as a musician.

58

SPIN magazine - Prince 2nd greatest rock star of all time.

That’s saying a lot about a man who was relevant as a musician from '82-'86 and didn’t even play rock music.

And for those who think he was relevant longer than that, I would agree. From '82-'86 he was relevant as a musician. Post '86 he was relevant as a guy who used to be relevant as a musician.

I don’t get it either. There’s a station they play at the gym that I think bills itself as the “second generation of classic rock”, and lists off a bunch of famous guitarists in one of the ads. Prince sticks out like a sore thumb in the list. I’d be shocked if 5 years ago he was anywhere near making the list.

59

SPIN magazine - Prince 2nd greatest rock star of all time.

That’s saying a lot about a man who was relevant as a musician from '82-'86 and didn’t even play rock music.

And for those who think he was relevant longer than that, I would agree. From '82-'86 he was relevant as a musician. Post '86 he was relevant as a guy who used to be relevant as a musician.

I wonder how they ranked him when he was alive. Feels like he got the death upgrade, but I don’t follow SPIN.

60

SPIN magazine - Prince 2nd greatest rock star of all time.

That’s saying a lot about a man who was relevant as a musician from '82-'86 and didn’t even play rock music.

And for those who think he was relevant longer than that, I would agree. From '82-'86 he was relevant as a musician. Post '86 he was relevant as a guy who used to be relevant as a musician.

I wonder how they ranked him when he was alive. Feels like he got the death upgrade, but I don’t follow SPIN.

In 2003 RS had him outside the top 100.
In 2012 SPIN had him at 6th. But they had Skrillex at 100??? and Thurston Moore at #1.