Roka Sim Shorts the ultimate swim tool?

Triathlon Forum
1

The quick and easy.

Good for:
Training - Once a week in a pool, but not to replace real swimming without toys
Wetsuit simulation
Pull Paddles
Kick Drills
Using oxygen for propulsion not lift
Tired legs - swimming after a long bike or run session
Koan and Vegas Athletes - Gives OWS a bit of a boost to stay with wetsuit friends while you prepare for non-wetsuit swim.

Bad for:
Backstroke rotation
Underwater wall to wall challenges with your buddies

The longer version:

I swim roughly 12-16k per week. Usually love to swim but get bored easily so I need to mix it up with the usual tri geek toys. My 800TT pace is about 1:20/100scy. My 800TT LCM is about 1:34/100m (I know, it doesn’t translate well). I swam all masters classes last year and went with a mix of mostly masters in the winter to mostly swim by myself now through tri season as I get ready for OWS.

This is where the Roka Sim Shorts come in.

I love these shorts. Built just like a wetsuit but in jammers style with a low waist line and come to just above the knee. They have a drawstring which I found to be very important later in the swim set. THey fit tight like a wetsuit should.

Today was LCM as I didn’t feel these shorts would really benefit me all that much for SCY, but it turns out they would work any where really. As I pushed off the wall I could feel the float in the hips right away. It felt odd at first like I was tethered to a pulley system from the ceiling. While the hips are lifted high, it’s still very easy to rotate from side to side while doing freestyle, but not very well for backstroke. Backstroke was the only conflict in which it helped float my hips and raise the legs, but made rotation on my back difficult, like it wanted to stay flat. I also noticed that as I pushed off the wall on the flip turn, the suit filled with water and I had a bubble butt. The drawstring is there for a reason and I tied that off at the next wall. No more bubble butt.

Since I was already thinking this was the greatest swim toy ever, I decided to try some drills to see what other toys I could replace with these. No more pull buoy for one. Using the shorts with paddles is AWESOME!! Paddles, float, rotation, and ability to kick makes for some fun free speed. I also tried some kick drills. Normally I start to sink when doing kick drills, but the shorts kept me buoyant. I also found the shorts help me use more oxygen for propulsion rather than for keeping me from sinking, which results in more glide and I feel I can finish off my stroke longer which nets me faster times in long course.

Oh yeah, times. On May 18th I swam an 800 TT pretty hard with an average of 1:35/100m. Today I swam a 1:31/100m 800TT using the Sim shorts and just cruising, not a really hard effort. So there is some serious speed to gain and I would consider these shorts for a race where wetsuits are allowed but you know full well that the temps are too high to wear a suit. I think these would be ideal for that situation. And if my times dropped that much in a pool with just shorts made by Roka, it REALLY makes me wonder what a full suit by Roka will yield me.

The last thought I had was how well these shorts will help me out when I start training for Vegas and go out training with friends doing Kona. Last year when I trained with guys doing Kona in open water, a group of our friends would wear wetsuits while the Kona bound athletes went without. I believe in safety in numbers and learning to properly draft in the swim is crucial for race day. The wetsuit athletes would be on a slightly faster pace than the non-wetsuit guys which resluted in just 2 or 3 of us swimming together. However, I feel that with the Sim Shorts, keeping up with the wetsuit athletes will be much easier and still give the proper training for a non-wetsuit OWS.

I still think there is no other toy or tool that replaces swimming in a speedo to better yourself, but these shorts definitely make it fun and have a place in my bag for at least one swim per week.

ETA - one more bad thing, the shorts really do simulate the feeling of being in a wetsuit and I really had to battle the urge to pee in the suit. Had to remind myself I was in a pool.

BTW - I’m not affiliated with Roka in anyway at all.

2

Thanks for the review! Any idea how long these shorts would realistically last in a chlorinated pool? I know that the company states that they were made specifically for the pool… but that’s the biggest concern for me.

3

No idea, but I showered with them on and let them air dry.

At $100, I would be happy if they lasted a full year, but I suspect they will last longer for me as our pool is not heavily chlorinated (IE, my eyeballs are not on fire when my goggles leak).

4

I have one too. I wore them for an entire workout yesterday for the first time and I did a set of 100’s (in Long Course Meters) on 1:20. I went 1:12-1:13. That is the fastest set I have done in 15 years. Even in warm up I was averaging around 1:20/100M with a relaxed easy stroke. I was in the Woodlands, I think I could have gone over to the IMTX swim course and done it in less than 50 minutes swimming by myself without getting my HR out of zone 3. For comparison sake, I typically swim my SCM 100’s on 1:20 and avg 1:13. So I was swimming as fast in LC as I typically do in SC.

So I think it is indisputable that the suit makes you faster. The logical questions are: why, and how will that impact your regular swimming? The why is easy enough: your hips are higher in the water thus you swim faster. It has the same effect as a pull buoy without locking your legs together. And when your hips are higher, your catch can start earlier and with more power. The second question is a little trickier. Part of me wants to wear the suit full time for now on. I think you should swim as fast as you can all the time. And I don’t think the SIM is like a aid mechanical that requires adaptations to swim with. You just put it on and you swim faster. I have put some feelers out to the coaches I know and I am curious to see what they think. Roka Rob’s thinking is along the same line as yours: it is a great tool, but not a fulltime solution. Maybe he will weigh in here?

5

i have been looking at these as well. I’m pretty much married to the pull buoy since swimming is almost always my 2nd workout of the day and my legs are toast. Much like you described, i prefer to use my oxygen to propel myself as opposed to trying to stay up. (I’m not looking to turn this into a debate…but I find my workouts are better this way as opposed to struggling through sets at masters without the PB). It would be nice to have the effect of the PB without the nuisance of a PB. I would also imagine that the roku shorts would help with your kick and stroke mechanics much more than using a PB (which seems to alter things fairly significantly).

6

Exactly. Tired legs, float, but still actually move your legs and not negatively affect your reach and roll.

As for the other post about possibly having a negative affect on swims that are non-wetsuit legal; I don’t think so as long as you still do a few sets without the shorts on so you remember to use your core to keep your hips up. If anything, I would think the shorts would keep you in a position for long workouts and hopefully muscle memory will almost force you into the same position without the shorts on. But that will take months of “studying”.

Keith, these shorts will NOT help you Sunday!!!

7

Looks interesting… I currently use swim jammers that have weathered the chlorine okay for the last few years.

8

For those who have tried the Sim shorts, how do your TT or set times compare to using a pull buoy?

9

Never recorded my time with a pull buoy. I can try that Thursday though.

10

You are going to be way faster than you would with a buoy. No test needed, just using logic.

11

they won’t help me float up the hills??

unfortunately the shorts in my size are not in stock…so I have to wait. no idea how long.

12

You’re right, I think swimming properly will help with muscle memory so that when you take them off your more likely to swim the same way, or at least notice the difference if you’re not and try to correct. I’m Interested in hearing what the coaches you reached out to have to say.

13

1+ on the review. I’ve had mine for two weeks. My 500 yard warm-up went from a usual 7:30 to 7:10 with the same effort. I no longer take my pull buoy to workouts. BTW - I’m 5’11 and 150 and the Medium fits fine.

14

You’re right, I think swimming properly will help with muscle memory so that when you take them off your more likely to swim the same way, or at least notice the difference if you’re not and try to correct. I’m Interested in hearing what the coaches you reached out to have to say.

I disagree (but I’m not a coach). Being in the correct position (by virtue of wearing these shorts) doesn’t teach you anything about what muscles to engage to get into and maintain the correct position. In fact, it may do the opposite: without needing to engage any muscles, your body learns to relax the muscles that should be working. Although I never use them, this is why I think ankle bands are effective in teaching one to get the legs horizontal: you need to really work the muscles that keep the legs horizontal, thus developing that muscle memory (and endurance). Exactly the opposite of these shorts. Think about raising your arm straight out to the side: you engage your deltoid. But if someone is holding your arm straight out to the side, your body has not engaged the muscles that get your arm into that position: you’ve learned nothing.

To the poster who said that his legs are trashed by the time he gets to swim practice: your leg muscles aren’t really what keeps your legs horizontal. While they do some of the work, it isn’t very much work (and it certainly isn’t accomplished by kicking!). It doesn’t take much effort from the glutes and back muscles to keep the legs up.

15

My PB and SIM shorts TT times are almost exactly the same for 1000 yards.

Pull Buoy 14:30
SIM Shorts 14:31
Sleeveless Wetsuit 13:39
Full Sleeve Wetsuit 13:23

16

I disagree (but I’m not a coach). Being in the correct position (by virtue of wearing these shorts) doesn’t teach you anything about what muscles to engage to get into and maintain the correct position. In fact, it may do the opposite: without needing to engage any muscles, your body learns to relax the muscles that should be working. Although I never use them, this is why I think ankle bands are effective in teaching one to get the legs horizontal: you need to really work the muscles that keep the legs horizontal, thus developing that muscle memory (and endurance). Exactly the opposite of these shorts. Think about raising your arm straight out to the side: you engage your deltoid. But if someone is holding your arm straight out to the side, your body has not engaged the muscles that get your arm into that position: you’ve learned nothing.

To the poster who said that his legs are trashed by the time he gets to swim practice: your leg muscles aren’t really what keeps your legs horizontal. While they do some of the work, it isn’t very much work (and it certainly isn’t accomplished by kicking!). It doesn’t take much effort from the glutes and back muscles to keep the legs up.

The reason for our disagreement on this might be in this statement “your body learns to relax the muscles that should be working.” No matter what suit you are wearing, your position is not going to be perfect. It is better with the suit, but not perfect. I assure you, the set of 100’s was not relaxing! And using bands doesn’t cause you to over strengthen the core it just causes you to over stroke to compensate for the sinking hips (which has a desired effect, so not necessarily a bad thing).

17

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback and reviews of the SIM. Interesting to hear how people are getting on with the suit. Some responses/thoughts to some of the great comments in this thread:

On swimming faster in the SIM - the fact that it’s faster should make sense because it lifts your hips and has a faster-than-skin coating. If you are going slower in a SIM you are in trouble and should talk to a coach ASAP. :slight_smile:

Durability - The suit liner may fade over time like any other swim suit, and we expect about a year’s worth of regular use. Can’t say for sure because some pool guys are more chemically aggressive than others. We are confident, however, that the lamination of the neoprene and liner will not fail, and we warrant our workmanship on seams, etc. We recommend rinsing the suit in fresh, cold water after use and hang drying inside out (you can tie the drawcord together and hang from that). We also recommend McNett’s Wetsuit Shampoo. It removes chlorine and will keep the liner of your SIM fresher for longer. If you have trouble with your suit, just email us at support rokasports.com and we’ll get you sorted.

On wearing it all the time - seems like that’s for you and your coach to determine (and if you are a developing swimmer we recommend getting a coach!!). Just like how you decide how much to use paddles and a buoy or an ankle strap or any other tool.

Why we created the SIM - the reason we created the SIM was to more accurately mimic the effects of swimming in a wetsuit, because we believe that where possible, one should train like one races. Racing in a wetsuit puts different stresses on your body. Your hips ride higher, your shoulders feel different, it’s easier to press into your T and swim downhill, and you don’t need to use your legs as much. The SIM better approximates that than anything else we’ve found, and we think there is value in training with it. It’s like riding in the aero position on your trainer or on training rides. You use different muscles. Your body can benefit from that exposure. There are little supporting muscles that are stressed in different ways in wetsuit, just as there are little muscles that are stressed differently when riding in the aero position.

Just so we’re all on the same page, we are not saying the SIM is the best way to learn how to swim correctly for pool swimming. We got plenty fast in the pool without ever using a SIM (or an ankle strap for that matter). Will the SIM help some people swim faster in the pool? Am sure it can, just like any other tool. For example, try vertical kicking in the SIM - much easier for someone developing core strength. Having trouble maintaining alignment with just an ankle strap? Try ankle strap + SIM and let us know how that feels. But is the SIM a replacement for fundamental conditioning? No. You gotta do the work.

How we use the SIM - we use the suit for some swim sets, vertical kicking, and definitely for pull sets (instead of a buoy). We think it’s an excellent buoy killer, because it doesn’t raise your hips too high (causing you to arch your back) as some buoys do, it doesn’t force you to rotate awkwardly (as some buoys do), it doesn’t require you to squeeze your thigh together (as all buoys do) and it allows you to kick and flip/open turn normally. When we do pull sets we often keep a two beat kick for stabilization, and a buoy can mess than up. Of course, should you wish to further isolate the legs, you can throw on an ankle strap - no prob - and still get all the core tension training you want. We LOVE SIM + ankle strap.

How you should use the SIM - Totally up to you. YMMV and we aren’t prescriptive. But if you figure out something cool, please share it!

Availability - lastly, we’re doing our best to meet demand and will have another batch of SIM shorts in early June. We’ll start accepting backorders soon. Thanks for your interest and patience!

Best,
Rob

18

I’ve been considering the sim shorts as I like the Finis Rangs http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/18905.htm

I’ve been using them with success :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Geoff
.

19

Instead of paying $100 for the Roka Sim shorts, couldn’t I just take an old wetsuit and cut it into jammers?

20

Rob, just put a request in to be notified by email when you’ll have mediums in stock. any insight to this?

thanks,
Eric