Roka Maverick

Ok, I’ll take advantage of the roka team being on this site and answering questions.

I think the roka site is taking orders soon, so now is time to get some info. I posted this on another thread but it was starting to hijack th thread, so ill paste it here.

As much as I love reverse zippers, I have to admit I’m really interested in the roka maverick.

It seems wetsuits came a really long way over the past 10 years and then stalled out for the past 2 years. It seems b70 is the top of the food chain and everyone is trying to create the same suit with some “special” gimmick. The b70 helix, which i loved for 3 years, regardless of sponsorship, is still the suit to beat, whether your a pro or mop ag’r. I think Huub is onto a great approach and taking a large interest in the age group needs for high end suits that have a lot of give and flexibility. I think nineteen went for the simple and durable approach while still making a suit close to a helix and I respect that a lot (currently using a rogue).

I’d love to see and feel in person what makes the roka maverick special. What niche does it fill? Is it well made? Does it flex? Is it simple or complex? Do the cuffs hold tight and keep water out. Is the neck low and unrestricting yet keep most water out? Will it chafe with the bulk of the zipper at the back of the neckline? How are the internal seems, especially around the armpits? Does it compress or is it just restrictive. Can I freely expand my diaphragm?

Lots of questions that I would love to check out.

Hey Zach,

Again, thanks for the interest.

As I said in the other thread, we’re swimmers and have tested the suit with a bunch of triathletes, both pros and age groupers. So we’ve considered the points you mentioned. I won’t get into the testing and race results we’ve done, you can see some of that on our site. But we’re very exciting about what’s in store for the 2013 season.

To run through some of your questions:

Well Made?

Yes we believe our suits are very well made. We’ve partnered with leading factories overseas and have pushed even their manufacturing capabilities with a few aspects of our suits. There is actually a fair amount of consolidation on the manufacturing side of wetsuits, so let’s just say that our factories are proven.

Simple or Complex?

Not sure what you mean by simple or complex, but the suit reflects what we believe is needed to optimize multiple variables. Buoyancy alone does not translate to the fastest swimming possible, and we think we’ve moved the ball on suit design in that regard. That is, we did not just stick a bunch of thick neoprene all over the place to try to optimize for buoyancy, as some do. We started with a speedo and added to that, rather than grabbing another brand’s suit and trying to figure out what to change. Our suit reflects that bottoms up approach, and the result is an array of different materials for different jobs.

Instead of just making “the most buoyant suit”, we focused on putting people in the fastest body position (requires what I’ll call “smart buoyancy”), helping them rotate properly (really important for fast swimming), adding stabilizers in certain parts of the suit to overcome common technique flaw, and finally, ensuring that the athlete has maximum range of motion where needed. Then we thought about comfort and some other details - like getting out of the suit quickly in T1. When you step back and look at all of that, it’s pretty complex. Our suit is actually more expensive to manufacturer than most suits on the market, for sure. When you put it on and swim though, the Maverick gets out of your way and lets you focus on kicking ass.

Flex?

Definitely. The Maverick pro has a Yamamoto SCS #40 1.5mm upper with a variety of liners. Some of the liners are very high stretch, but where stretch isn’t needed we optimized for water absorption (or a lack thereof), stability, and other attributes (not cost though :slight_smile: ). The number one complaint we had ourselves and have heard from others about wetsuits is that they make your shoulders fatigued prematurely and force you to adopt a different stroke. We don’t think you will find a suit that is more comfortable in the shoulders than our suit. And the sleeveless suit is just nuts.

Good cuffs? No leaks?

No leaks. We have purpose-built, barrel cuffs that won’t leak. They might feel tight in a changing room at a retailer, but at speed in T1 when the suit is wet, you should no have trouble getting out of the suit. None of our athletes have had trouble getting out of the suit (wrists or ankles).

Low cut neck?

Yep, the neck is low cut and uses Yamamoto #40 for stretch and comfort. Our first iteration had a single ply neck that some brands use, but despite our intuition, we found it to be restrictive on the throat when tightened. We’ve increased the length of the velcro and the surface area of the neoprene flap, so an athlete should have plenty of surface area to get the proper neck fit. If there is any neoprene flap surplus after getting the right fit, the athlete can trim it to make sure the flap isn’t creating any drag. On the back of the neck there is a small neoprene panel that extends above the zipper to protect the neck, but it is very low profile and does not flap around as several of our competitors’ suits do - that just creates drag. I’ll see if we can get some product detail shots up to show you what I’m talking about.

Internal seams?

We use standard construction techniques - glue and blindstitch with flatlock stitching. This combination offers the best balance of waterproofing, durability and stretch. The seam joints are taped with dots, as is common practice in high quality suits. We’ve reinforced high-stress areas and have taped the final several inches of the ankle seams to prevent tearing in T1 and to allow people to cut the suit to length. Our suits are actually fairly long, extending down closer to the ankle than most, because we want to eek out that last bit of buoyancy. If you don’t favor that approach, you can trim the leg and get a clean cut.

Compress or restrictive?

We haven’t had any complaints that it’s restrictive or that it hinders full breathing. One benefit of using Yamamoto #40 and of our proprietary side stripes on the legs (they are 1.5mm thick) is that the suit is forgiving and shouldn’t feel restrictive when sized correctly. The side stripes, which we call RS2, also make the suit much easier to get in and out of. That comfort was actually the first thing Jesse and Meredith mentioned (independently) when trying on our suits. Meredith has finished almost 50 Ironmans, so she’s worn a lot of suits!!

Chafing at the neck?

Have not had an issue with this but regardless we do recommend as a best practice to apply Body Glide or TriSlide to the neck and ankles to limit friction.

On the trend of design gimmicks

I don’t think there are any gimmicks to our suit. On the materials side, we purposefully don’t create a lot of b.s. acronyms or fake terms to describe the materials we’re using or the approach we’ve taken. The truth is that most of the textiles in this market are commodities and top brands do not make their own neoprene or textiles, despite the fact that many have been in market for decades. So we’re calling b.s. on that practice. We aren’t, for example, going to call the textile panel in our wetsuit forearms “ROKAFLEX” and pretend we actually make a proprietary fabric blend or something silly like that. In that example, the fabric we use is a teflon-coated woven textile from a premium Italian manufacturer called Mectex. They’ve been around for a long time, are very popular in the competitive swimming markets (used by Speedo and others), and other brands in triathlon have used their materials. It’s a very expensive fabric but has some great performance characteristics because a woven textile is naturally more compressive than a knit. There is cheaper stuff out there but we don’t think it works as well.

On the product design side, the Maverick design is rooted in principles honed by decades of elite swimming experience. We also applied basic physics to several aspects of the design (for example, adding buoyancy to the outside of the side of the legs, as some do, actually makes it harder to rotate). Overall, the Maverick design has been validated by real world testing and results. In addition to race outcomes, Jesse tested the suit with his coach and found it to be faster than what he had been used before by 1.5 seconds per 100 yards, and we’ve had similar or better results in our own testing of many suits.

What niche does it fill?

We design our suits for everyone. Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would have a custom suit that accounts for their own stroke flaws and idiosyncrasies, but right now that’s not practical at scale. We designed the Maverick Pro for elite swimmers initially (ourselves) and then based on feedback from non-elite swimmers built in some features that will really help most triathletes, without taking away performance. Access to the suit will be limited by its cost, so we’re working on more affordable models that don’t compromise performance. Most brands downgrade materials significantly on midrange and entry level suits, which why we’re getting a lot of emails right now about “discount” suits that don’t have much flexibility or comfort. So stay tuned on that front. :slight_smile:

Of course, everyone is unique and has a preference on this or that. I hope my responses don’t come off as cocky or anything. It’s entirely possible our suit won’t be perfect for everyone, but we genuinely believe the Maverick can make most people faster, and we’ve created a 30 day money-back return policy that should give you time to test it for yourself.

Long response, Zach. Hope that helps. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,
Rob

I am very interested in the Roka maverick also! I would love to hear how it fits compared to other wetsuits, before and after results, and some unbiased reviews. Guess I’ll have to wait a while for that.

The pro’s results with the suits are impressive. However, I see that the two “age-group” testimonials on the Roka website are from past Stanford swimmers who, I am assuming, swam with the founders Rob and Kurt. It’s not surprising to see these guys at the front of the pack with or without a great wetsuit. This is totally understandable because the suit and the company are new but I would like to see the results from the “everyday tri-addicts” who were part of the test group for the suit.

Debating whether or not to take the leap in to Roka’s uncharted waters is going to keep me up at night. I am hoping that this thread will grow and will help make up my mind. The biggest question after the “to buy or not to buy” decision will be sleeves or no sleeves. Anyone have information on the differences in sleeves/sleevless specific to Roka?

Yep, same problem. Doors open this weekend. Do I chance it and spend the big bucks on a rookie suit?

I guess I’ll wait. As much as I want to try another suit, I have no open water to swim in until May. Maybe a demo will be available. If so, I’ll give a full write up like I did with huub and other suits.

Dave Mayer (founder of Clean Bottle), a friend but not an elite swimmer, wore our suit at IM Cabo and dropped 7 minutes on his swim from his last race. He went 1:03, and I believe it was his personal best or within a minute of it. He noted that he went faster in the ROKA on less training (2x per week vs 4x previously) and was thrilled with the result. I think he finished in 11:30 or so overall so was not just sprinting the swim or something. We just haven’t gotten his testimonial up on the site… Will be posting others, too.

In terms of reviews, we have had very limited production samples and have given them exclusively to athletes for racing and testing, so yep, probably will be a little while before we get some third-party reviews. Probably could have “seeded” the market better but honestly just wanted to make sure we stay focused on the athletes to whom we had already committed our support.

Best,
Rob

Rob - First of all, I should have said, Congratulations and best of luck with ROKA! It is exciting to see new products come out and very exciting to see products designed by real athletes with real world knowledge and not just an engineer with a super computer and some knowledge of aerodynamics and hydrology. (I hope you had a few of these guys in the war room too!)

Keep it up. I’m almost convinced! I am in need of a wetsuit this year because I am stepping up to IM Wisconsin and have been swimming 70.3 and Olympic without because of shoulder restrictions in sleeved wetsuits and potential water leak issues in sleeveless.

I may buy one now just cause of the CEO’s response. I love when businesses (especially the executives) take the time to thoughtfully respond to questions from their customers and potential customers. This type of passion, responsiveness and service is one reason why certain startups and niche brands that make great products really take off and develop loyal followings (DeSoto and Kiwami come to mind…).

Thanks for the support! I’m personally very excited to be working on ROKA full-time and have actually just left my corporate law job to do so. So definitely investing in our future success.

Re: leaking on the sleeveless, we actually designed the sleeveless model first, have raced in it a bunch, and have not had any issues with it leaking. It’s a #40 upper as well and feels as though it molds to the body quite well. As you’d expect, the key is to ensure that you’ve got the right size.

As for being convinced on a ROKA suit, take your time. :slight_smile: We will continue to share the experiences of other athletes, pros and age groupers alike, and we will do our best to make the product available at races and stores in due time. I’ll also do whatever I can to answer questions. I also totally appreciate that it’s a premium price point, and we are working on making our products more accessible on that front. Hopefully the 30 day money-back return policy takes some risk off the table.

Best,
Rob

I’m curious to see where your sleeveless suit would fit in. I was under the impression that a sleeved suit is “always faster” unless it leads you to overheating.

It seems like shoulder restriction in a sleeved suit is the primary reason people choose to go sleeveless and I’m guessing (hoping) this is not an issue in high end suits.

As point of reference I’m a ~30 minute HIM swimmer in a 2008 (?) bluseventy Reaction.

I may buy one now just cause of the CEO’s response. I love when businesses (especially the executives) take the time to thoughtfully respond to questions from their customers and potential customers. This type of passion, responsiveness and service is one reason why certain startups and niche brands that make great products really take off and develop loyal followings (DeSoto and Kiwami come to mind…).

+1

Great to see you post here. Looks like an outstanding product and wish you the best. With that said, I do not believe a wetsuit will give you 7 minutes over another wetsuit, same swimmer, same conditions.

Thanks. Yep, am sure there are lots of factors at play. Proving causality is a toughy. I will say that I think you’d be surprised, especially when comparing a premium suit with an entry level or midrange one. It’s not unlike comparing aero wheels to standard wheels in many respects. But talk is cheap - I get that. We have been doing a variety of testing protocols and studies and do plan to produce a defensible report with statistically significant results.

First of all congrats on the launch!!!

Quick sizing question for you. I know you have had limited testing due to being a new company, but can you specify how your suits run? In particular, I am 5’7 and 133lbs and would fit both your small and extra small. Normally I’m an advocate for sizing down but every wetsuit is different. Example, according to Xterra and TYR, I can fit into an XS. I fit perfectly into the XS Xterra, but it’s more than a laughing matter that I would fit into the XS TYR Hurricane. Would you recommend sizing down or not when in between sizes?

Thanks!

Re: the sleeveless question - this is a super controversial topic - less the part about premium suits but more about whether sleeveless are faster in general. I’m decidedly in the camp that some sleeveless suits definitely outperform some fullsuits. YMMV. Someone will undoubtedly say that’s because I’m a swimmer, but I don’t follow that argument.

To optimize mobility, we think you need a stretchy (and preferably thin) neoprene, a stretchy liner, and some thoughtful panel construction. Brands take different approaches here and make different compromises. If you bought every premium suit on the market (we’ve bought or rented most), you will see some significant variation. Frankly, I think some brands have been caught up in the “buoyancy battle” and are ignoring other important aspects of suit design. At the midrange and entry level price points, I don’t think most brands take shoulder mobility seriously at all - just look at the materials used. Thus, some fullsuits while “technically” faster might not be faster in reality. Or rather, that speed may come at the cost of fatigue.

One other note, fullsuits are warmer - for sure. That warmth can be great for cold water but can be detrimental in warm water racing. We’ve done core temperature testing in a variety of suits and have seen a material difference between sleeveless and fullsuits in warm water and even between different models of fullsuits (!). So I think thermoreg can/should be a consideration for some races.

For reasonably warm water, I would much rather have a good sleeveless than an entry level or midrange fullsuit. Again, your mileage may vary. But that’s why you should test first if you can!!

Good question. We based our sizing off the Xterra Vector Pro X3, mostly because they are a direct sales peer (not endorsing the product :slight_smile: ). In highsight we might have done it a bit differently, because it took considerable effort to adjust and calibrate our patterns after finding them to be much stretchier. Our testers have reported that our suits feel much less restrictive, particularly up top, because we use Yamamoto #40 in the upper and they use something else. We have done our best to adjust and calibrate, so to speak, our patterns, but the suits still have excellent stretch characteristics. For example, we’ve had people wear our medium/tall comfortably while ranging in height from 5’11" to 6’5" and weights of 160 - 200. That is a ridiculous range. So if you are the low end of a model size, I’d size down. Also note that the suits will open up a bit in the water and in a long swim will stretch a bit more once the neoprene warms up.

The size chart really is just a guide. That’s partly why the return policy is so generous.

Hope that helps!!

Is a whole minute feasable from another top suit?..I am in my 50’s and swim a hr flat or hair under full and 29 half IM. I have had the same T1 since 2003. Is it feasable to find a minute with a new suit…or even 2. 2 seconds per 100 is alot

Jesse tested the Maverick with his coach (we were not there) and got a 1.5+ second per 100 yard difference over a leading competitor (that does have #40 and other premium materials in their suit), so I think it’s entirely possible. But I am biased so you should test it yourself.

ST has graciously offered to test our suits and we will take them up on it, we’ve just had a shortage of production samples for reasons already mentioned (focused on getting them to athletes first).

Rob

Does Jesse wear a MT? He’s what, 6’1" and 175lbs or so?

Well thank you very much for your time and response. I live in Montana so hard to try out. I also work by faith running a transitional home for guys getting out of prison, drugs ect, so sadly I will be wearing the same wetsuit I have had for the past ten years for a few more. Hard enough to get to races. I sincerly hope you do very well…thanks again …kenney…those gains would probably fight off father time on my swim times for a few more years :wink:

Yep, M/T for The Aviator.