Rim to Rim, Grand Canyon advice

Triathlon Forum
1

If someone wants to run the Rim-to-Rim in Grand Canyon…(Just one-way, not round-trip):

  • Which direction would you go?
  • Which south-side trail: South Kaibab or Bright Angel?
  • Timing? Many say April, but I don’t quite get that, as North Rim is not open till May 15. Wouldn’t you need/want the North Rim to be open to get water, lodging, and car/shuttle access?
  • Other logistical issues and tricks? Is there such a thing as affordable lodging on the North Rim?
  • What else to make it a great experience.

Thank you.

2

This will answer some of your questions

http://marathonandbeyond.com/choices/Tibbets.pdf
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3

I’ve got a friend of mine who is now retired British Special Forces. He’s spent months at a time inn some very bad places with just him and a few other buddies both pre and post 9/11. He’s also a very accomplished triathlete and ultra distance expedition athlete. He did rim-to-rim a few years back and said it was absolutely the hardest thing he’s ever done and the closest he’s ever felt like he was going to die.* Needless to say he says he’ll never do that again.

*Our conversation about it was before his last tour in Afghanistan where he took a serious concussion blast during his final weeks in country.

4

My brother and I did R2R2R last September. We started and ended on Bright Angel trail. We choose that date and route for the temperatures, water availability and low chance of dealing with snow melt, runnability and ease of logistics. Early fall just seemed to make more sense to us than the spring.

For a R2R I would start South and go North. You can comfortably carry enough water to get you to Phantom ranch running along South Kaibab going down - there are fewer water spigots on South Kaibab. South Kaibab is shorter but steeper than Bright Angel. For us, Bright Angel was more runnable and water was more available. These spigots are not open year round. I don’t recall when in the spring they turn them on.

Pacing is important, as it was difficult for us to prepare for the altitude and elevation change. Expect a slower than planned pace, be flexible and prepared for a variety of things to happen- weather, food, clothing. Real food (peanut butter and jelly on tortilla) tasted better than bars on the second half for us.

Everything is expensive near the Grand Canyon except camping. We didn’t want to have a crappy night’s sleep before or not be able to rest after doing it, so we got a hotel outside the park.

5

I hiked down and up again 25 years ago when I was 19 in early April. Some observations.

Icy mule crap on top. 80+ degrees on the bottom.

Starting at sunrise was smart cause I didn’t make it out till just after sunset.

Ones car is not comfortable to sleep in, in below freezing temperatures.

Don’t bring a gallon of cranberry juice as your only source of hydration. I didn’t pee the whole time and I think I ended up recycling the contents of my bladder. Twice.

Even though I may have been 150 lbs. it’s probably still wise to go on a couple hikes or runs before trying this sort if thing.

6

If someone wants to run the Rim-to-Rim in Grand Canyon…(Just one-way, not round-trip):

  • Which direction would you go?
  • Which south-side trail: South Kaibab or Bright Angel?
  • Timing? Many say April, but I don’t quite get that, as North Rim is not open till May 15. Wouldn’t you need/want the North Rim to be open to get water, lodging, and car/shuttle access?
  • Other logistical issues and tricks? Is there such a thing as affordable lodging on the North Rim?
  • What else to make it a great experience.

Thank you.

If I was doing the run I would start at the side closest to my home, get picked up on the far side, and continue on my vacation.

The South Kaibab trail has less people. So running disrupts them less. The Bright Angel trail is much better marked - important in the dark.

As I recall the South Kaibab has some water at the restrooms half way down.

Logistics depend a great deal on how fast you are going and the season. Walking gets you down and up in mostly daylight hours. Runners (under 10 hours) should be able to avoid the dark and get done before the stores close. Doing just one crossing means very little gear. Carry less water going down; more water coming up. Cooling off in the river is a reasonable thing to do. Take some food.

There are lots of cheap places to stay north of the park. That requires you get done earlier and drive for a bit.

It is foolish to race. Just run. Enjoy the run. Enjoy the wildlife.

7

I did the R2R2R traverse over memorial day weekend 2012. It was by far the hardest thing that I’ve ever done even more so than the Ironman…

To answer your questions:
The south rim is more accessible and going south to north likely makes sense if you are making a roundtrip, but if you are going one way I would actually go from the North Rim to the South. Also there is a bar/restaurant at the top of the south rim which means you could grab a beer at the end of your hike/run. South Kaibab is steeper and, I believe, has no water whereas the Bright Angel trail is longer, but less steep, and has three water stops along the trail. Definitely depends on your comfort level and how much you plan to carry with you. I have run both trails and the views are equally stunning on both. When I ran, the temperatures were a little below 40 at night, but inside the canyon during the day the temps were above 90. Also, feel free to call the park ranger office at the Grand Canyon a few weeks before you go as they can give you a real-time update related to water. Even with all of the planning I did, it still turned out that one of the springs was broken and I had to go a 13 mile stretch in the canyon without refueling…Absolutely you should camp if possible. I bivyed on the rim of the South Canyon the night before my run and it was incredible. Grab some lemonade at Phantom Ranch. It very well could be a simple Minute Maid mix, but I was so wiped out when I was there that the damn thing tasted like heaven and I still dream about it sometimes.
Let me know if you have any other questions; been to the Grand Canyon 4 times and hiked most of the major trails around it so happy to chat more logistics.

8

I did it, south-to-north last mid-October. I though the timing, both weather-wise and tourist-wise, was perfect.

We stayed at some hotel on south rim night before (didn’t arrive until after dark, nearly hit at least 6 goddamn mooses on the drive in). Planned to get up real early and start well before daylight. Drank too much & overslept. Got to trailhead right at daylight. Very glad we did. I would have hated to miss the stunning view as we started on Kabib. I have never used the word breathtaking in a sentence before now. Like “Hoooo-leeeee fuck!”-breathtaking.

Started out wearing two t-shirts and gloves, and camelback with 70oz water. Within 8 minutes I shed one of the t-shirts and the gloves. Run down, we saw and passed maybe 6 people. Passed one 5-mule train that was coming up. Seemed like we were at the bottom in no time. I would not describe our pace as very quick at all, nice easy jog, stopped to take tons pics, goof off etc.

At Phantom Ranch, you can get a breakfast beer and a bagel for $5 or $6. Also can refill your bladder. I am not 100%, but I think that was the first place we could get water on our route. You can get a real meal there at the ranch too, but I think you are required to order it in advance. I also am pretty sure I had removed my second shirt by then, so I applied a ton of sunscreen while stopped there.

I think on the ascent, we came across three places to get water, and needed them all. I am guessing it was in mid 80’s from phantom ranch to the north rim. I didn’t find the route very challenging at all. I am surprised to read these people saying it was tough. Even the couple guys in our group who were not in super-hiking shape did fine. Maybe those who have said it was tough did it round-trip - we only went one-way. I don’t remember exactly, but I want to say it took us about 8 hours? We hiked/slow jogged the middle 1/3, and definitely hiked the final 1/3.

Here is the one thing that kicked me in the balls - I had no idea I was afraid of heights. Going down, didn’t bother me one bit. I still was unaware of my phobia. But halfway up on the north side, I started panicking inside my head. It was worse because I was bungee-corded onto a guy who was a little slower, so I was pulling him up. We stopped to catch our breaths, and I unsnapped myself, apologized, and said I gotta go, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I spent the next 3 or 4 miles staring straight down at the path and hugging the wall. I even handed my camera to a guy who went ahead with me and asked him to take pictures of what I’m sure was beautiful scenery that I could not look at. And then, jeebus cripes, when another group would come down the path and we had to make room, I really was having some anxious moments.

I guess I should have mentioned, I have some background in running ultras, etc so neither the distance, nor the climb, nor the elevation changes were of any significance to me. Some of the others in my group were slower, as I said, but I don’t think any of them really struggled either. Again, we only went one way. I can see how R2R2R would be a much bigger deal. Overall, I bet we only saw a total of less than twenty people the entire day.

Oh, and if you are really lucky like we were, you have your buddy waiting at the north rim with beer in the car, he can drive you up the road a halfmile where you can get a shower at the campground, then he drives you straight to Las Vegas where you arrive and party your dick off for a couple days.

Overall, one of the coolest things I have ever done. I would do it again in a heartbeat - sheer-dropoff-terror and all.

9

you can get a breakfast beer
.
.
.
beer in the car

TeamBarenaked knows his shit.

Another option is to leave uber-early, and set the goal of making it back to the Bright Angel Bar before closing. Have your SOs there waiting to gently massage you, and drink beer while regaling them (aka ‘boring them’) with wildly exaggerated stories.

10

South Kaibab is steeper and, I believe, has no water

The water at the restrooms was more or less hidden. Intended for emergency use. It was in large clear plastic containers.

I would not plan on it. But I would certainly look for it in case I needed it.

11

I did the R2R2R on April 16, 2013. Weather was ideal (a bit windy), chilly to start on the south rim, doable heat at the bottom and there was snow on the north rim, but not freezing cold. Did the Bright Angel trail going out and back. We stayed at the south rim since we did the round trip, so don’t know about lodging/timing of north rim. PM me for more details, as I’d be more than happy to share.

12

I hiked to the river and back in the middle of October last year and I thought the timing was ideal. I stayed entirely on the south side, I went down south kaibab and up bright angel. I left at sunrise and it was a little cool but 10-15 minutes in as I was descending and the sun came up it was warm and I was in shorts and a t-shirt. The whole trip took just under 6 hours and that was with hiking at a good pace but no running. I stopped at the bottom for breakfast and for numerous photo shoots along the way. There is no water on south kaibab but a few spots to fill up on bright angel. The whole descent took about 2 hours with stops and I did not need much water at all. The temperature at the top was in the mid 30’s and was in the mid 90’s at the bottom. I carried a northface hydration pack and two bottles of Gatorade along with a few pb and j sandwiches. I topped up my hydration pack at the bottom and didn’t need a refill on the climb up bright angel. Obviously the climb was much harder and it was pretty hot, it was around 90 when I got out around noon. I really didn’t think the hike was that difficult and the warnings are a bit of a joke. If you are in half decent shape you can go down and back in a day with no problems although I probably wouldn’t do it in the summer. I am sure I would be able to run down and back around 3 1/2 hours if I was trying and didn’t stop to take photos on the way.

13

Late October to Mid November is the best time to do it, IMO. Spring works too, but you can run the risk of still hitting snow heading up to the north rim.

Oh, and man up and just do R2R2R.

14

I did the R2R2R in November of 2012 with my brother and before setting out, one of the best websites we came around for planning the trip was at Andrew Skurka’s site:

http://andrewskurka.com/adventures/grand-canyon-rim-to-rim-to-rim/

There’s a number of great blog accounts on the trek, but the website above seemed to provide some of the best information for us to figure out our logistics.

We set off on our quest to do the double crossing just before dawn to one, catch the sunrise from the heart of the Canyon and two, do our best to be out of the Canyon before dusk when the friendly mountain lions come out of hiding to stalk staggering runners who stupidly try to do this thing called the R2R2R in a day.

If heights don’t bother you and you’re okay with a little bit of a steeper approach, start at the South Kaibab Trailhead. The trail is a few miles shorter than Bright Angel and in my opinion, the views are spectacular compared to Bright Angel. Don’t get me wrong, Bright Angel is pretty awesome, I just prefer some of the dramatic sights that come from the pretty steep terrain presented by the South Kaibab trail. If you’re leaving a car, you can park about a 1/4 mile from the trailhead in free spaces on the side of the road. The trailhead lot is not open for general parking.

Depending on the time of year you go, there is more or less water available on the trail. The link above details this pretty well. When I did it, my brother and I carried 170 oz between the two of us and never had an issue even with the ‘Off Season’ water set-up in the Canyon. The important thing to note though is at the North Kaibab trailhead, there is no water unless you make the trek an additional .5 - 1 mile to the campground. Assuming you are getting picked up, this shouldn’t be a problem. If you do think about heading back, just plan for the up and back down to and from Caretaker Cabin (approx 10.5 miles) to have enough water.

In terms of food, plan to bring what you need. The only option for anything on the trail is in Phantom ranch at the bottom of the descent from the South Rim. The options are extremely limited as you could imagine being a cabin down in the base of the canyon.

In the end, it took us 11.5 hrs to make the double crossing stopping to take photos along the way. One of the best experiences of my life and I hope to go back and do it again one day. It is a very challenging run / hike, but also one of the most rewarding and incredible runs I’ve ever done.

Enjoy!

15

I do R2R2R annually, sometimes over Memorial Day weekend, sometimes in late September or early October. If you’re only going across once, I suggest you start on the NR since that’s a longer climb. From the NR, head up South Kaibab. This is the shortest route across. The North Kaibab offers great vistas of the inner canyon that Bright Angle doesn’t offer. You can’t go wrong either way, though.

If you’re feeling ambitious, you could go up the South Kaibab to The Tipoff. From The Tipoff, travel across the plateau on the Tonto Trail (4 miles) until you reach Indian Gardens. Then from Indian Gardens, head to the South Rim on the Bright Angel Trail. This way, you get to see the inner canyon from 3 very, very different trails.

Spend a day or two on the South Rim. Beers on the back porch of the El Tovar is always my favorite way to recover. You can take a shuttle back to the North Rim to pick up your car.

I’ll be there May 24-29. Have fun and be safe.

16

I did the R2R2R traverse over memorial day weekend 2012. It was by far the hardest thing that I’ve ever done even more so than the Ironman…

To answer your questions:

The south rim is more accessible and going south to north likely makes sense if you are making a roundtrip, but if you are going one way I would actually go from the North Rim to the South. Also there is a bar/restaurant at the top of the south rim which means you could grab a beer at the end of your hike/run. South Kaibab is steeper and, I believe, has no water whereas the Bright Angel trail is longer, but less steep, and has three water stops along the trail. Definitely depends on your comfort level and how much you plan to carry with you. I have run both trails and the views are equally stunning on both. When I ran, the temperatures were a little below 40 at night, but inside the canyon during the day the temps were above 90. Also, feel free to call the park ranger office at the Grand Canyon a few weeks before you go as they can give you a real-time update related to water. Even with all of the planning I did, it still turned out that one of the springs was broken and I had to go a 13 mile stretch in the canyon without refueling…Absolutely you should camp if possible. I bivyed on the rim of the South Canyon the night before my run and it was incredible. Grab some lemonade at Phantom Ranch. It very well could be a simple Minute Maid mix, but I was so wiped out when I was there that the damn thing tasted like heaven and I still dream about it sometimes.

Let me know if you have any other questions; been to the Grand Canyon 4 times and hiked most of the major trails around it so happy to chat more logistics.

I bet we talked to each other that day. I was doing the same thing at the same time. The day I did it, NPS turned-off the water on the NKT until Supai Tunnel because of a break in the trans canyon pipeline. Brutal…