Steep is generally good. All the articles I have read on Slowtwitch and elsewhere indicate that steep is the way a triathlete or duathlete should ride. You want to rotate yourself forward so that you minimize your frontal area and in the process improve your aerodynamics. Agreed? For the sake of discussion, let’s assume you are not forced to compromise your fit for a poorly fitting frame. In other words, the option to ride steep is there.
Given this, I have a question for those of you that tinker with your position on the bike: Why would you not ride as steeply as the frame/seatpost will allow? For instance: you have a bike that will allow 75-79* of seat angle adjustment, why would you not use 79* and shove your seat forward on the rails as far as it will go to achieve the steepest seat tube angle?
For any pro fitters that care to respond: If an athlete is reasonably flexible, why would a FIST certified or other highly competent bike fitter not use the steepest available configuration to start a fitting in every instance?
Some people don’t like it from a power transmission standpoint (most do), it’s not for everyone.
It can be tough on the junk, especiallly if you’re a lady, but then it’s not called junk.
Handling can be a little bit more difficult too.
Generally, if you’re a more powerful rider, steeper is the way to go because you can maintain an aero position the whole way.
Steep means nothing if you’re riding on the basebar.
Good question, and Jon provides all good answers in his reply.
While there is a lot written on Slowtwitch about the virtues of a steep position, there is also a balance of content that mentions it is not optimal for every athlete- no one fit concept is.
The predominant benefit of steep postures is not necessarily better body aerodynamics. That may have been the spirit in which it was crafted, but the ancillary benefit is the balance of biomechnical effort over a greater number of muscles- the much written and discussed Ian Garside study. This facilitates a more efficient transition from bike to run resulting in measurably faster run splits according to the Garside Study. Anecdotally, I can confirm those findings myself. I run faster and more comfortably off a tri bike.
That said, it isn’t for everyone. The longer the femur bone becomes proportionate to the overall leg length and the torso length the tougher it is to get really steep to work.
“The longer the femur bone becomes proportionate to the overall leg length and the torso length the tougher it is to get really steep to work”
Well said! Back in my weight lifting, college baseball days, I had to “lengthen” my tibia/fibula to allow squats to work because of my unusually long femur! The long femur with the “normal” length of my tibia caused me to feel like I was going to fall backward.
Now when I try to go steep on my tri-bike I feel like I am kicking backward and going to rip my patella out of my skin!
There is one scenario where steep isnt always better! ha ha Lucky me!
I’ve tried riding really steep and I don’t like it. I also find that I like to slide back in the saddle to generate power, maybe because I have lots of junk in the trunk which helps me out in that regard. Guys with a roadie background may also find it uncomfortable to be too far forward.
Riding with a semi steep (75-76 ish) seat angle doesn’t seem to hurt my run. I’m a crap runner whether or not I’ve ridden beforehand or not.
To add to the mentioned comments, a lot depends on bike design. You can slide your seat as forward on the rails as possible on any bike, but that means that you will likely be compromising handling on many frames. It’s just not that simple. This change in weight distribution has to be calculated into the frame design for it to work properly.
Steep is fine for flattish strait out and back courses, but if on a really hilly or technical course it’s not usually the best option.
As for myself. Steep worked great for me on short course rides. However, I always found that crotch and neck were issues on longer rides. I was perfectly fitted on the bike, but there is no getting away from the fact that steep places more pressure on the taint and you have to hold your neck more in extension when riding. Some people have no trouble adapting to this while others never will.
So is there a diminishing return? What’s to stop someone from riding at 88 or even 90 degrees? Some bike can accomodate that including the felt da on the forward mount with an appropriate saddle and a little nose riding…
Because riding steep is what you do if you’re too inflexible to ride a normal seat tube angle while still being optimally (or close to it) aero. Contrary to popular belief, steep is not a goal in-and-of-itself, but a tradeoff you accommodate if necessary because it usually comes with a loss of power.
What are you talking about? I’m sure that Dave Z and others ride steep because they are “too inflexible” to get aero while riding a slack seat angle…that is a joke. Steep seat angles are more efficient for TT due to muscle recruitment among other things. Go spread your misinformation elsewhere.
UCI rules for TT state that the seat ti must be 5cm behind BB. This does not allow a steep angle and thus the need to ride the nose. TT rules don’t indicate such. So to do both, or one, or the other, one must find the best fir, within in the rules.
Or cut the tip off of your like Basso, but he’s a cheat.
I used Dave Z. As a single example to support my response that steep riding isn’t just a function of inflexibility. I didn’t think (and still don’t) that responding to someone as ridiculous as you was worth more than a single example. Ironically, my response is still better than your unsupported blanket statement that people ride steep because they are inflexible. You keep going around telling people that they should ride at 70 degrees and do a bunch of hokey flexibility training. Meanwhile, I will be handing your ass to you riding at 82 degrees.
I rode steep last year, and have stopped this year. I simply didn’t feel as fast.
There is no scientific/power data to support my theory, it just feels better shallow.
I’m currently in the process of having this argument with myself…
I have ALWAYS ridden steep. (Since my first tri-bike, back in 1991) This year, in an effort to become a more “well rounded cyclist” and also based on a lot of what I read here, I purchased a road bike. I figured I could use it as a commuter and use it for some heavy training miles. So far, with only about 20-25 rides on it, although I am getting more comfortable, I don’t seem to generate the same power as I do on my very steep tri-bike. When I slide up on the seat, I feel like I’ve got the power back. I’ve got to give it lots more time to get used to, but I’m fighting the temptation to buy a forward seat post really bad…
Your flexability is only a very small factor in what position you can ride. I’ve known guys that can pleasure themselves, and others that can’t touch their kneecaps, and they ride similar positions. As for many of the great tt bike racers, many are now getting exemptions to ride steeper, and many will be following shortly. Steep works for the majority of people, and when fit in blind studies, they almost always choose steeper. We have run about 300 fitters and coaches through the clinic here, and what I see when they get their own fits, is 8 out of 10 go steeper than they were riding. This all done on a fit bike where they start out around 76 degrees, and move to their best feeling position without knowing what angle it is at, until they have said , Ureka!!! You can site small numbers of athletes and show that any position works, but for the majority of people, steeper works better…
I was ready to buy a steep bike but I got fitted ( F.I.S.T certified shop) and I make the most power about 74 angle. I’m also aero in this position with a flat back and running is no problem off the bike either. I guess I don’t fit the ST mold. I wonder how many are like me that would make more power on a road frame with aero bars? I do thank my fitter for being honest and not selling me something I didn’t need but I plan on buying my next bike from him for his honesty.
I was set up last year largely by feel and using some simple angle guidlines and I ended up at about 77 degrees which by the sounds of things here is a little shallow. That was a triathlon year and it went very well and I loved the position. I spent a few months this year testing my setups with pictures and most importantly using power metering and tried almost everything from 75 - 81 degrees on my P2. The conclusion was that I ened up at 77.5 degrees this year setting up for 40K TTs with 4 cm more drop than last year. I noticed significant power reduction at 75 degrees and some power reduction at 80 degrees. So after 5 months of periodic testing and 27 different combinations I’m just about back where I started but a little more aero. I would be losing power to go much steeper so I think there is a limit for everyone as to how steep works and its based largely on physiology.
And don’t assume that because you ride at 82 degrees that you can kick my ass.
Well said! Back in my weight lifting, college baseball days, I had to “lengthen” my tibia/fibula to allow squats to work because of my unusually long femur! The long femur with the “normal” length of my tibia caused me to feel like I was going to fall backward.
Long femurs are pretty cool in the traditional road position, I’d be willing to guess you’re a monster climber…
Funny you say that…I was just writing a friend to give a RR of my MTB race yesterday…I was FLYING up hills…literally would cover an incline in half the time of other riders.
Now I just have to gain some confidence on the descents and I’ll be all set!
I think it’s down to personal preference and muscle adaption in my case. you may be the same.
Before I get flamed by the rest of ST, I did say “In My Case”.
Because I’ve ridden shallow for years, on road, track and tri bikes built out of road frames, my mind and muscles are used to it. Therefor, when I did my steep experiment, even though I was still in a flat backed position, and still went reasonably ( 2.15 for 50 miles) , it just felt wrong.
You’re used to steep, so maybe your muscles and mind are adaped to it accordingly.
And yes, I have been know to slide forward on the saddle on some rolling terrain.