Renato Canova’s comments about Boston

Triathlon Forum
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Renato Canova’s comments about Boston

This is interesting reading from one of the top marathon coaches.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4011478
Now I say my explanation for what happened.
1) In a course without rabbits, nobody supposed that one athlete (Ryan) could go from the start at so fast pace, without any mental inhibition. Ryan was wonderful as personality and as interpretation of the race, knowing his only chance is in a very fast but even pace. Of course, he didn’t know the potentiality of Geoffrey and Moses, and he tried his best. Without him,probably the race could be a normal competition, with a final time about 2:05.

2) Geoffrey and Moses never looked at the watch, so were not afarid about the speed because they didn’t want to know it. Honestly, we feared Gebremariam, and the tactic, involving Geoffrey, Moses and Robert Cheruiyot, was in any case to push very hard immediately after 30 km.

3) Without any mental conditioning, Geoffrey hammered in incredible way, running 28:24 between 30k and 40k. But wonderful was Moses, having a max gap of 8.0, never thinking to look for maintaining the second position only, but always concentrated on Geoffrey. His ability to stay in the race, in his first marathon, closing the gap after being 50m behind, was something really unbelievable (14:07 between 35 and 40k). And they were still able to finish last 2195m in 6:14 Geoffrey (exactly 2:50 per km) and 6:18 Moses (2:51.7).

4) They average was 2:55 per km, and this is possible only for athletes able running at the moment 10k under 27:00.

The reality is that Marathon is changing, with this type of athletes. Till 5 years ago, few athletes able running about 27:00 moved to marathon, and only when old, and no more to run faster than 27:30. The same Tergat (WR holder of 10000m in 26’27") moved to marathon when no more able to run faster than 27:10.

Instead, athletes like Geoffrey and Moses move to marathon WHEN ARE ABLE TO RUN 26:45. This fact provokes different effects :

a) These athletes are younger (so more fresh in their mind and their body) and faster than before

b) Their training changed. I use very high intensity for extensive workouts (for example, Moses ran 40k 3 weeks before Boston in 2:07:15, on rough road, start and finish in the same place, and heavy training shoes), and of course I need to give more days of recovery between one specific wokouts and the next one. In this case, Moses had the next training on track (10 x 1600m with 2’ recovery in 4’35" / 4’32" with the last in 4’17") exactly 6 days after his 40k.

c) Their level of intensity NEVER goes under 85%. This is a big difference, because in Kenya and Ethiopia the post-race behavior is to relax without doing any alternative training for rebuilding speed and muscle strength, so everytime the athletes prepare a new marathon they start again from a low level. Instead, Geoffrey using competitions, Moses using training, both of them maintain a high quality also short time after the marathon. We saw this last year with Geoffrey and Wilson Kiprop, this year with Mary Keitany.

d) Physiologically speaking, this type of athletes are able running a HM near 6 mml of lactate, and their marathon is near 4 mml. In other words, if till 5 years ago the best marathon runners were DIESEL ENGINES, now are TURBO DIESEL (whar already happened with Paula Radcliffe).

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Great read. Thanks for posting.

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my explanation for what happened, is tailwinds… I’ll believe his explanation when those athletes run 2:03 on a flat loop course…

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my explanation for what happened, is tailwinds… I’ll believe his explanation when those athletes run 2:03 on a flat loop course…

yeah, I’m not sure what to make of the first sentence about how nobody believed one man could go so fast from the start without inhibition.

the same man did the same thing the last two years if you subtract the wind.

but what he says about how marathon is changing is true, and its very telling from this line:

"Without him,probably the race could be a normal competition, with a final time about 2:05. "

2:05 is now normal

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It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next year or two. If 2:03 becomes normal, then we’ll know it wasn’t just the conditions in Boston on this day.

No one will argue that times at Boston have historically been slower than the other majors. Some will say this is because of the course, some will say because of the tactics at Boston (along with the abscence of rabbits you see at other marathons). I’d say a combination of the two, Boston doesn’t get guys time trialing a marathon behind pacers, so that slows things down, but it’s also a slower course.

I realize Boston is a net downhill course, but net downhill doesn’t mean fast. If a course climbed 4,000 feet over 20 miles and then lost 4,500 feet in the last 6.2, no one would consider that a fast course despite it being net downhill.

So while there was a tailwind, they ran these times on a course that most would agree is slower than a course like Berlin. So does the tailwind simply cancel out the slowness of the Boston course making this a true 2:03? Or did the wind more than overwhelm the course penalty making it 2:04/2:05/2:06?

If 2:05 becomes normal, we’ll know it was an exceptional day out there. If 2:03 becomes something we see a few times a year, we’ll know it wasn’t just the wind in Boston.

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Geoffrey and Moses never looked at the watch, so were not afarid about the speed because they didn’t want to know it.

Gold like this just rolls off this guy’s tongue (fingers).

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This could be similar to how that despite the fact that swimmers no longer have access to the “super” suits - they have not suddenly began swimming slower.

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The last 10 years marathon has gone through a change. From being the distance ole and slower track runners “retired” to, marathon runners of today are scary fast on all distances. It is also easier to make money out of running marathon compare to the track, so it has become more attractive to focus more on the road.

Tail wind or not, seeing the runners at Boston was impressive, tough running by amazing athletes. They are maybe not ST aero, but quite good anyway :wink:

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This could be similar to how that despite the fact that swimmers no longer have access to the “super” suits - they have not suddenly began swimming slower.

do the swimmers still have super suits that are just a bit less super?

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Doug did you run Boston?

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Jack, did you run Boston or you are arm-chairing all of this?

Bob

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all of this?

I point out that he said nobody excepted something that happened the two previous years

and that 2:05 is now normal which is amazing.

and you are going to start a “Did you even run boston” thing here?

No I didn’t run boston. In fact since none of us ran with the pro men which is what this is about nobody is allowed to comment on this thread AT ALL NOW

party is over

takin my toys, going home.

Jack, did you run Boston or you are arm-chairing all of this?

Bob

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No, my point is that people are complaining about the winds and extrapolating the effect they had on the race and they weren’t there. People can say whatever they chose (It is ST afterall) but to reach conclusions about the meterological effects of wind on racers without actually being on course is a bit abdurd. That’s all.

Bob

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I’m not actually saying this because I already went home:

I didn’t say anything about the wind, in this thread Macho.

but I will now, the wind made the pros faster, period. men and women.

there are a number of reasons it might not have made AGers faster

No, my point is that people are complaining about the winds and extrapolating the effect they had on the race and they weren’t there. People can say whatever they chose (It is ST afterall) but to reach conclusions about the meterological effects of wind on racers without actually being on course is a bit abdurd. That’s all.

Bob

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You’re right, my bad on that point…And you’re right about the pros, though the effect cannot be known. It is unknowable.

There, I said you were right. Twice. In one post.

RV

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brings his toys back

You’re right, my bad on that point…And you’re right about the pros, though the effect cannot be known. It is unknowable.

There, I said you were right. Twice. In one post.

RV

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all of this?

I point out that he said nobody excepted something that happened the two previous years

and that 2:05 is now normal which is amazing.

and you are going to start a “Did you even run boston” thing here?

No I didn’t run boston. In fact since none of us ran with the pro men which is what this is about nobody is allowed to comment on this thread AT ALL NOW

party is over

takin my toys, going home.

Jack, did you run Boston or you are arm-chairing all of this?

Bob

My cousin, Matt Folk, spent most of his time with the pro men, running in the elite start. So with as part of all this other douchebaggery, I declare myself the most genetically qualified to respond to this thread. :smiley:

Matt has a couple overall marathon wins (Glass city in 09 and 10) along with some other high placements and finished 145 overall in Boston this year with a 2:34:52 in his first Boston. He thinks he can go lower next year as he’ll be better prepared for the Newton Hills. I bike them regularly so I should probably have given him better warning.

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ran Boston in 1991, I’d say it was one of the easier marathon courses of the fifty-odd I’ve run…
I predict neither of Mutai or Mosop will run 2:03 ever again…
look at point 7 over here,
http://www.letsrun.com/2011/week-0421.php

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Right, ok, so you’re making a conclusive statement about what occurred at a race that you didn’t attend and haven’t run since 1991…Right, ok, thanks for that clarification. Since you’re so omniscient, can you tell me if Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone or where all my missing socks are?

Bob

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see edit for verifiable predictions, plus more…

why so aggressive ?