A buddy has an achy neck, radiating into his arm…MD said “rest and advil”…sure, that is what they all say.
Goes to Chiro…Chiro manipulates this and that…said come back in the morning…buddy does…more manipulation…buddy feels pretty good after 2 visits…
Chiro then said that he would need 3 visits a week for the next year or two for manipulations…LOL…that is NOT healing, that is IMO creating a situation with all the manipulations to cause the joint to be lax and possibly make things worse long term…
SO, i did NOT say all Chiro are bad…just that some (and yes I know there are not so good MD’s too)…some are just idiot crooks…NO treatment should take 2 years…unless there is some serious ass rehab going on
“Chiro then said that he would need 3 visits a week for the next year or two for manipulations…LOL…that is NOT healing, that is IMO creating a situation with all the manipulations to cause the joint to be lax and possibly make things worse long term…”
I dont think that will make the cervical joint lax, but it might help his alignment significantly, by lightening his wallet thus reducing uneven stess of the spine…
It is my problem with some chiropractors (and a friend and team mate is a chiro and a good done) is that they behave like used car salesman. Of course we can apply that to MD’s performing unnecessary surgery and PT’s performing unnecessary and useless modalities.
I’m not a chiro, but I know many chiropractors. Frankly, I don’t understand why you’d post this knowing that there are many chiropractors on this forum. You’re talking about ONE guy here. What’s the point in trying to start something? As an attorney I know I’m always tempted to jump in when someone attacks all attorneys in general, i.e. “I don’t like lawyers and I don’t trust them.” I usually don’t bite. Hopefully, the chiros on this forum won’t either. This seems to be lavendar room material to me.
I dont think that will make the cervical joint lax, but it might help his alignment significantly, by lightening his wallet thus reducing uneven stess of the spine…
My sister in law is a chiro, holistic medicine advocate and accupuncture specialist. She went to China for 6 months to learn the craft. She came back and diagnosed all of us by looking at our tongues. I have low iron and need more fiber. Funny, the last time I gave blood, they did the iron test and my blood dropped in the test tube like a rock. The nurse said, “No iron problem here!” She claims to be able to cure just about anything through accupuncture. At any rate, the sister offered us her place to spend a couple of days while she went on a trip. She lives there alone. I found a pack of cigarettes in her refrigerator. Hmmm.
Ultimately, I think the medical profession sometimes acts a bit like a bunch of carpenters that only have one tool each. To an MD, with a hammer, the problem looks like a nail. To a Chiro or PT, with a screw driver, it looks like a screw. Too bad the human body is complex, and many times our problems are caused by numerous factors, like muscle imbalances, spinal adjustments, or even uncontrolable genetics. You have to handle each problem by studying it and THEN going to the tool box.
Frankly, I don’t understand why you’d post this knowing that there are many chiropractors on this forum.
When did I care to be PC? Oh…he hurt what ever he hurt on the bike, and the bike makes it worse…good enough for the main forum now? Just goes to show…one bad apple…
What many people fail to realize is that study after study shows that 90% of all people with back pain are better after 6 weeks without any treatment at all. This being said how does one know if its what a Chiro’s doing for them, or they just would have gotten better anyway.
I’m still waiting for one scientific study to validate Chiro care with regards to spinal manipulation.
On another note, statistically the outcome of surgery vs. nonsurgical treatment in the absence of neurological deterioration is almost identical at 5 years. Patients don’t know this though. Which is probably why one of the local neurosurgeons just bought 2 of the new Ford GT’s at $200k a pop to go along with the two AMG Benz’s and the 15 other cars in his garage. Motto: Operate on anyone who will hold still long enough for the anesthesiologist to whack’em.
Hey, that is one of my favorite quotes to patients when they ask me why Dr. X said this and Therapist Y said that (when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail that is). I try to teach this to my residents as well when considering surgery - the simplest way to treat patients is to act as if they are your next door neighbor or sibling. I also find the public is much more educated about physician’s qualifications and expectations now (which is good). They mostly seem to “trust” their family doc/internist (in that he/she has their best interest at heart), but often know they need a specialist (who hopefully refers to someone they trust as well). Ah, the American medical system … best in the world if used properly, otherwise it just costs a lot
As long as you go see a Chiro for something that chiro can fix, you are fine. A couple of times I pinched my right crural nerve. Seeing a PT would mean some sessions, etc. seeing a chiro meant, one adjustement and it was gone. if I have little pains here and there, my chiro takes care of it well…
If I have stomach problems I don’t go see a chiro…
Q: How many chiropractors does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Just one … but it takes 20 visits.
My retired chiropractor dad used to laugh at that joke. Sometimes it’s true out of necessity, sometimes it’s true for negative reasons. Other times, it doesn’t take a bunch of visits.
Most chiropractors I know, once the problem has been realistically addressed, just tell the patient to come in every once in a while for maintenance or a check up or (more commonly) when they hurt.
Right, but that is the problem: many Chiros even advertise that they can “cure” things like ear infections and stomach aches as well. Since they FULLY believe everything in the human body is a result of the spine/central nervous system, they MUST be able to fix it. I suppose that ready to burst appendix can be fixed with a tweak? And just skip the antibiotic for the ear infection? Right … Again, seeing the “right” specialist for your problem is the first BIG step in the American medical system - next is finding a good one (and I’ve seen a Chiro personally as well, so no ill will on my part)
in many cases, seeing a chiro rather than getting antibiotics will be a better choice.
The chiro won’t do much, but not getting the antibiotics, very often will mean that you are not going to die because of some antibiotic resistant bacteria years later…
AntiB are used way too often in this country (and others…)
too true. (about general overuse of Abx) Always amazed me how mothers would bitch if you didn’t give their kid with a virus antibiotics. You ‘weren’t doing anything’. The same mothers often perpetuate their kids ear problems because when they DO have an infection they quit giving the child the antibiotics as soon as they feel better instead of giving them the complete course of antibiotics…then they wonder why it ‘comes back’.
good reply, the trip is knowing when to go to a chiropracter, when to go to a deep tissure massage therapist, physical therapist, etc etc. If you can get someone who bridges too that’s even better, assuming of course that they are good at both of them.
find a good one of each, it’s worth it. If anyone in Hawaii needs some reccomendations I’ve finally found good people who do each of the above. Took me a while but I’ve now got myself an awesome medical support crew:)
Name ONE - I can’t think of of ONE instance where any infection (and yes it needs to be a bacterial infection of any type) could be treated (assuming the infection needs treated) with any kind of “manipulation.” I would most certainly take my chances with the antibiotic that has been studied in great detail (resistance an all), peer reviewed, etc. than the Chiro/Herbalist/whatever. I would be surprised with you having a PhD and knowing about science/research would welcome anecdotal “experience” (and I welcome you to check out the chiropractic “literature” for infection treatment of any kind).
I have personally had an MRSA (very serious resistant bacterial resistant) infection in my hand and I am fully aware (as are most physicains in the U.S.) about antibiotic overuse and resistance. Since many can be bought over the counter in Mexico and other countries, I’ll try to point a lot of the blame a little elsewhere.
I’ve been a chiro for 23 yrs and can actually relate to what you’re saying. There are chiros and there are “salesmen”. I won’t deny that there are some chiros that over sell their services, but will honestly say that I’ve never been one of them. Dentists also do the same thing sometimes. Both professions have practice management courses that tell you how to sell to patients, using everything from memorized scripts to use to other gollygeewhiz gizmos to keep patients coming back for more treatments than they really need.
On the other hand it’s sometimes not just acute pain that we are dealing with. Some patients only need one or two treatments while others truly will benefit from long term or even regular interval maintenance care for certain chronic or recurrent conditions.
Two years seems a bit excessive. You see that sometimes in MVA cases when the chiro or PT is trying to f*ck the insurance company. But there also are some genuine exceptions where long term care is advised.
I have a general rule that if I can’t fix something within a maximum of six weeks then either a re-evaluation should be done or a referral elsewhere should be considered.
I dont’ sell “maintenance care” as a rule but have many patients that have been coming to me for may years on a regular basis for chronic problems who benefit from a regular treatment which could be every two weeks, once a month or once a year. Other patients, in fact most of them just call me when they feel they need me.
You’ve posted several anti-chiro posts before so it’s obvious you have some sort of a dislike of us.
"I’m still waiting for one scientific study to validate Chiro care with regards to spinal manipulation. "
What planet are you living on? There are actually many. The Manga Report commisioned by the Ontario government comes to mind and there are quite a few others. It was a detailed study of low back pain and concluded that chiropractic is far more effective than conventional medical care in this area.
Any legitimate study involving chiropractic with musculoskeletal conditions has more or less concluded the same.
