Raising 5s and 1min power

This is how my power profile looks at Training Peaks:

I am a 57 year old male so I guess the profile correlates with my age, but also with some fundamental weaknesses that to some extent I might be able to hone. I guess this is fine for middle and long distance racing, but my power at 5 sec and 1 min sucks and is a limiter for short distance draft legal racing which is what I plan to do most.

What I am looking for is advice as to what type of training I should be looking for this. I am currently doing some Tabatas which I expect will help me with 1 min power, but I am a bit clueless about 5 sec. Is there some specific intervals that I should be doing? Strength training? A combination of both?

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My power profile was much like yours and I decided to work on 1 min and 3 min power for track cycling.

I used this training peaks plan:
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/training-plans/cycling/indoor/tp-181385/track-endurance-events-win-a-cat-2-3-4-endurance-event-300-500-tss-av-pw-50-vouc

It’s helped me with 5 and 20 min power as well.

For sprint power, try 5-10x 100m all out sprints with 5min. easy spinning between each. Yes, that seems like a lot of rest, but we are looking to develop anaerobic power. For each rep enter the rep at a reasonable pace (~20mph) and then sprint out of the saddle at max effort.

There is a limit to how much improvement you will see. Sprinting is something you’re born with and has limited development potential compared to endurance. Ollie from GCN comes to mind; he has a >300W FTP, but can only sprint at 700W all out (which a Cat IV will basically do accelerating out of every corner in a crit). He’s just all slowtwitch.

Admittedly, I’ve never done a DL legal event, but I don’t see how focusing on improving 5-sec power would be more beneficial than focusing on your 20 or 60 minute power.

You’re “rated” as a Cat 5 for 5/20/60. I’m no coach, but it seems like you’d be better off focusing on doubling down on those types of efforts for triathlon racing and bringing those up as high as you can. I have done plenty of sprint triathlons and have never needed a stronger 1 minute power… but 20 minute power? Absolutely. What good is winning a field sprint when you have to go into T2 and run?

And FWIW, my 5/20/60 are all Cat 2/3, but my 5 second/1 minute power are WAY below Cat 5.

have never needed a stronger 1 minute power…

I’ve never done a draft legal triathlon. But is it conceivable that you could come out of the water, say, 30 seconds behind a lead group of 5, but you’re all alone. And you’d want to close that gap fast and get in the draft before they start working together to pull away from you. Or else you could never see them again. In which case 1 minute power sounds handy.

And does no one ever attack in draft legal bike legs?

have never needed a stronger 1 minute power…

I’ve never done a draft legal triathlon. But is it conceivable that you could come out of the water, say, 30 seconds behind a lead group of 5, but you’re all alone. And you’d want to close that gap fast and get in the draft before they start working together to pull away from you. Or else you could never see them again. In which case 1 minute power sounds handy.
Agreed. 1-min power as a reserve of anaerobic ability is handy in draft legal racing for this scenario, or for taking harder pulls at the front if you’re working with a group of >5 guys.

And does no one ever attack in draft legal bike legs?
5-sec power, fun? Sure. Useful… not really, in draft legal. No one attacks. If they do, most of the time they just get monotonously reeled in by the group working together behind them, because the front pack is simultaneously motivated to stay away from the chase pack(s). Further, the cost of attacking is you’re more fatigued than everyone else in front pack if you do by some miracle make it to T2 a few seconds before them. In cycling, you’d have won the race, albeit exhausted. In draft legal tri… you’ve exhausted yourself and have to go run.

have never needed a stronger 1 minute power…

I’ve never done a draft legal triathlon. But is it conceivable that you could come out of the water, say, 30 seconds behind a lead group of 5, but you’re all alone. And you’d want to close that gap fast and get in the draft before they start working together to pull away from you. Or else you could never see them again. In which case 1 minute power sounds handy.

And does no one ever attack in draft legal bike legs?

30 seconds back, what good is 5 second power to close the gap? Unless you’re a world tour quality cyclist, your gunna need quite a bit more than 5 second power to close a 30 second gap. Therefore, focusing on even 3 minute vo2max power would be more advantageous than 5 second spring power. Idk. I just see that in all but one or two scenarios, Op needs to raise his 20/60 min power, as that will undoubtedly be used in every race he/she does.

have never needed a stronger 1 minute power…

30 seconds back, what good is 5 second power to close the gap?

Probably none. That’s why I cut out just the part of your quote where you said you never needed better 1-minute power. I thought there might be parts of a non-drafting triathlon where it’d be useful to drill it for a minute or so to close a gap.

But maybe you have really good 1-minute power and that’s why you never needed to make it stronger. :slight_smile:

Sprint triathlon and DL Sprint triathlon are two entirely different races.

Don’t need a good 1 min power to win a sprint, you need it to latch on and stay on.

have never needed a stronger 1 minute power…

30 seconds back, what good is 5 second power to close the gap?

Probably none. That’s why I cut out just the part of your quote where you said you never needed better 1-minute power. I thought there might be parts of a non-drafting triathlon where it’d be useful to drill it for a minute or so to close a gap.

But maybe you have really good 1-minute power and that’s why you never needed to make it stronger. :slight_smile:

Oh no. I assure you, my 1 minute power is absolutely abysmal. Lol

Are you riding in a trainer or outside?

Do you have a cycling group you can ride with?

What are absolute power numbers there?

If I had to stereotype, a typical triathlete rides by themselves and never sprints. Go for a couple group rides with fast roadies and you’ll quickly learn to sprint

From there, fresh legs (hard to spring when you’re fatigued from running), practice going all out and a rabbit to chase are most helpful when I’m working on short duration Power

I am a similar age and have similar issues, lack of punchiness. I did the training described in the link below and bumped my 1 minute and 5 second power up about 10% each.
http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2007/02/plyometrics-research.html

PS. if you just WANT to increase your 5s power, the best way to do so is to get stronger in the weight room. Lifting weights is by far and away more useful than just doing sprints on the bike. Muscular strength and power is the primary limiter to 5s power output on the bike. See link in my signature for lifting plans with videos. Probably will result in much higher 1min power too. I financially benefit from the sale of those templates, in case that wasn’t abundantly clear.

Not saying that’s what’s going to make you win draft-legal racing either.

Also, potential drawback, in the interest of the fullest disclosures, if you do end up increasing your 5s and 1min power output ceilings substantially via lifting, you’ll have to learn how to NOT use those peak power outputs during racing. Just because you’re better at them doesn’t mean you will be less fatigued using them mid-race. You’ll actually be better at creating fatigue (acid) for yourself and blowing yourself up faster, if you’re not careful. If used well, there can be marginally increased cycling economy (reduced energy consumption for a given power output), but if used with wonton disregard for the fatigue a hard sprint can create mid-race… expect to be off the back.

Take it from me, your local 94kg cyclist and triathlete with the ability to accidentally put out 1500W if I’m not paying attention (<75% of my peak power)… but still just as fatiguing as anyone else putting out 1500W. Rapid acid accumulation!!

Thanks for the response. I have encountered plenty of situations were 5s power would be helpful in DL racing.

An example might be were you are in the back of a large group which suddenly breaks up into two. A 5 second effort might allow you to bridge the gap and join the leading sub-group. This is happening all the time in the races I enter, were large groups keep fragmenting all the time.

After transition, a couple of seconds is all it takes to loose contact with a group that starts collaborating.

Without 5s and 1 min power, I am forced to race DL as if it were non drafting. Ideally, I think you could burn less matches by gaping the groups and drafting most of the time.

I see. You’re probably right. I hadn’t realized that groups in DL racing had become large enough to experience meaningful splits like that.

Thanks for the input. Yes I do group rides with my group, albeit less that ideal. In a typical group ride were egos and testosterone start spilling all over, I miss both 5 sec and 1 min power. Albeit, more of the latter. In a typical ride, I might loose contact after a 1-2 min hill, and then have to work my arse for 5 minutes to rejoin, which I do often, thus burning a lot of energy. Mind you, my problem is not just the 1min power, I am also more efficient in relative terms, pedaling in the flats or downhill than uphill. This has to do probably with my front leg muscles being stronger than my posterior chain, as I am relatively light.

In said group rides, it is less likely that I need a 5 second effort to close a gap, but it happens some times. In DL races it can happen quite often.

Thanks for the response. I have encountered plenty of situations were 5s power would be helpful in DL racing.

I’ve raced crits my entire career (mostly p/1/2) and really don’t find 5s power useful for these situations.

Earlier it was mentioned that 5 s and 1 min is needed to close a 30 second gap, and then this suggests it’s helpful for closing gaps, but I have a 1400 watt sprint and I will *maybe *go over 1000 watts 2-3x in a 60-90 minute race, and then that’s only when attacking, going for a prime, or in the final sprint.

Closing gaps is never, ever about a max effort sprint. Frankly, that’d do me no good as the recovery needs would then ensure I get spit out the back of whatever group I just bridged up to.

Also, a 30 second gap is pretty much impossible to close in a minute or other such short amount of time. Think of the speed differences. At 20 mph, you’d have to do 40. At 25, you’d have to do 50. And I definitely don’t see how it’d help with pulls. If you’re going anywhere near your one minute max when taking pulls, you’re going to blow up in very short order. That needs to be massively aerobic, more along the lines of 5 minute power at a max early on, and settling down substantially after that.

Personally, in bike races, a ~10 second gap is the maximum amount of time I can bridge as that takes right around 60-75 seconds at 550-600 watts. Any gap larger than that would require a substantially more metered effort (and at 28-30 mph, I don’t have that ability).

For closing gaps, I’d focus way more on 1-5 minute power. Sprinting is really a very specific thing that should only be used in very specific instances and not something that should be repeatedly done in the middle of a race, in my opinion.

I would agree that a 30s gap is not something you can close in 1 minute. Probably not even close it at all, unless you have significant help.

I also agree that 1 and 5 minute power are more useful than 5s, only that I believe that 5s power does have a place at some instances of a race.

I would agree that a 30s gap is not something you can close in 1 minute. Probably not even close it at all, unless you have significant help.

I also agree that 1 and 5 minute power are more useful than 5s, only that I believe that 5s power does have a place at some instances of a race.

Think the most beneficial thing for your power development in group rides would be to practice not getting gapped at all. :slight_smile:

You’re asking the wrong question(s) to solve the problem you presented imo. You’re taking a can’t see the forest through the trees approach, especailly in light of this comment you made “In a typical ride, I might loose contact after a 1-2 min hill, and then have to work my arse for 5 minutes to rejoin, which I do often, thus burning a lot of energy.”

That’s not a 1 min power issue even if you’re lacking 1 min power.

Hear me out.

My premise is the higher your FTP the easier it is to do these efforts, recover from them, hang on/around when these efforts happen or if you recognize someone is about to blow, put in an effort yourself and get rid of them. It doesn’t do you any good to cover these first few efforts only to get shelled out the back later. IMO training :05 &1 min power without figuring out how to raise your FTP is ass backwards. Here’s why.

If you’re required to close multiple gaps in the race and these are going to take anywhere from :05-3-5-10 min to close the higher your FTP the lower the physiological ask to close the gaps.

For example you’re :07 back from a group of 5 leaving T1. You have to put in a ~ 400-550w effort for~ :20 to latch on, could be a bit longer, maybe a touch shorter but I’d bank on longer unless the group is putzing along.

If you FTP is 230 then that is a big ask AND the hole that leaves you in will take longer to recover from, while you’re still racing. Therefore you’re also susceptible to a savvy person in the group recognizing that and surging, causing you to make another big ask of yourself to stay in the group or the group hits a 180 or a corner and bam you’re back on the gas. Sooner or later your body is going to say FU and you’re going out the back. It’s hard to TT back into the group when you’ve burned your matches.

If your FTP is 285 the physiological ask is smaller and you’re better able to handle AND recover from the effort(s). While it’s best not to light those matches to begin with, the higher your FTP if you light a match it’s often a matchbook match not one of those long fireplace matches.

(this also plays out for the run. All these well above FTP efforts on the bike will ding your run, don’t forget that)

If the group splits and you have to jump on the gas for :03-:05 the higher your FTP the less damaging this effort is, the less lactate you’ll produce and have to combust.

This is also a situation where pack awareness really comes into play. For my athletes that race DL, both pro & AG, I counsel that being aware of what’s going on ahead of you can mitigate some of these surges.

Again if you’re FTP is 230 and you have to jump to 350 for a few seconds to bridge that gap it’s a bigger ask and takes a bigger physiological toll on you vs someone with 285 as an FTP.

Then if you’ve driven FTP up, then it’s time to worry about 1 min power.

While you do need to train that ability (~1 min), raising your FTP allows you to cover a lot of the physiological demands/reduce the negative impact from these efforts, allows you to sit in the group more comfortable than others as these efforts happen or even surge coming out of a corner ripping the group apart.

With the ebb & flow of DL age group racing I’ve never really had anyone have the need to do a specific focus on :05 or 1 min power, especially as their FTP went up. Sure their are instances where it was needed, yet a block focused on that, never. It’s adjunct training not the focus of training

Worry about raising your FTP then worry about raising your 5min (another conversation we can have) 1min and lower duration power.

thoughts?