I’m racing IMTX April 28th. Texas 70.3 in Galveston is 3 weeks before the full. I would like to race the 70.3. However, I’m worried the recovery cost will be too high and would negatively impact my IMTX race.
Alternatively, I can use 70.3 as a trial run and go my expected IMTX pace. If I can’t do a half at that pace I sure as hell can’t complete a full at the same pace.
Race it or use it as as a trial run and go IMTX pace?
Thank you,
Michael
completely unrelated (well maybe a little), ill be doing the 70.3 in galveston. if you do it best of luck!
How about some background on your experience level. I assume you are coaching yourself. How is your overall endurance? Are you confident you can run the entire marathon?
If you want to have a 70.3 under your belt then fine do the race because you want to. Do it as a training day.
If you haven’t registered for the 70.3 then I would really consider doing a “big day” training session instead. It will take about the same amount of your time, will be totally
free, and will be more suited to giving you a better shot at having your best race in the 140.6
http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/04/ironman-big-day.html
Good Luck and see you in The Woodlands!
Race it. There is very little training value in doing a 70.3 at IM pace.
Race it. There is very little training value in doing a 70.3 at IM pace.
could you think of a way that it would have value?
I’m racing IMTX April 28th. Texas 70.3 in Galveston is 3 weeks before the full. I would like to race the 70.3. However, I’m worried the recovery cost will be too high and would negatively impact my IMTX race.
Alternatively, I can use 70.3 as a trial run and go my expected IMTX pace. If I can’t do a half at that pace I sure as hell can’t complete a full at the same pace.
Race it or use it as as a trial run and go IMTX pace?
Thank you,
Michael
Long run Wednesday-ish, Long ride Saturday, Galveston 70.3 @ IM pace Sunday, back into regular training Monday.
DNF after the bike, ride the course one more time, then brick it with an easy hour run.
I’m racing IMTX April 28th. Texas 70.3 in Galveston is 3 weeks before the full. I would like to race the 70.3. However, I’m worried the recovery cost will be too high and would negatively impact my IMTX race.
Alternatively, I can use 70.3 as a trial run and go my expected IMTX pace. If I can’t do a half at that pace I sure as hell can’t complete a full at the same pace.
Race it or use it as as a trial run and go IMTX pace?
Thank you,
Michael
Long run Wednesday-ish, Long ride Saturday, Galveston 70.3 @ IM pace Sunday, back into regular training Monday.
This seems like a complete wasted approach in that you could just stay home and do entirely the same thing and not waste the time to travel over, get a hotel and pay an entry fee.
I’d suggest the same as what you going with but actually do the race at Half IM speed and cut out the Saturday long bike workout. The guy will learn more about what may come up at IM race pace over IM distance by going half IM race pace at half IM distance. The additional full day of rest on Saturday is also good too. Racing the half IM at half IM pace at the athlete’s limit (for half IM) is a nice test of execution of what he/she will do at IM pace at IM distance. I am with Huffnpuff…go race it. Also more advantage doing the half IM swim at half IM pace and the additional chance of distress that you get exposed to going harder.
Not really seeing the value of doing a half IM at IM pace when you can just stay home and do the same thing on any training weekend.
If you haven’t registered for the 70.3 then I would really consider doing a “big day” training session instead.
+1
Most training plans I’ve used have me doing 100+ mile ride three weeks out, dialing in final nutrition.
Dev,
I kind of disagree as Galveston is pan flat just at IMTX is and likely the OP’s home roads won’t offer the same never ending (traffic free and nutritionally supported) flat roads to really test his position and nutrition. I am in the camp that a warm up race is a good test for a key goal and this type of race can be a good final big session in the IM build. I would definitely not taper not go into it with a performance mentality, but I would race it, on tired legs and all, which will feel awfully similar to the IM sensations in the latter half of the bike and run. The week that Eric laid out sounds solid to me and would be a great final week in the IM build.
DNF after the bike, ride the course one more time, then brick it with an easy hour run.
The bike is an out and back. OP could make the turn around, and on the way back add in a couple of u turns to get the mileage up. As long as they are back by 5:30 hours after the start, they could still get the run in.
DNF after the bike, ride the course one more time, then brick it with an easy hour run.
The bike is an out and back. OP could make the turn around, and on the way back add in a couple of u turns to get the mileage up. As long as they are back by 5:30 hours after the start, they could still get the run in.
Good points. But as Dev notes, you can do Big Day training for free at your own home. The advantage of using the race is getting actual swim practice on a live course with competition and some on-course nutrition practice if he can make the final bike cut-off.
Dev,
I kind of disagree as Galveston is pan flat just at IMTX is and likely the OP’s home roads won’t offer the same never ending (traffic free and nutritionally supported) flat roads to really test his position and nutrition. I am in the camp that a warm up race is a good test for a key goal and this type of race can be a good final big session in the IM build. I would definitely not taper not go into it with a performance mentality, but I would race it, on tired legs and all, which will feel awfully similar to the IM sensations in the latter half of the bike and run. The week that Eric laid out sounds solid to me and would be a great final week in the IM build.
The problem with using a 56 mile bike and 13.1 run to test execution, pacing, and nutrition for a 112 mile bike and 26.2 mile run is that problems with the pacing and nutrition might not show up until the latter half of the bike and/or run.
I always though the EN guys described it well:
The most common reason athletes give me for wanting to complete a half Ironman® is to do the event as an Ironman® race rehearsal. In my opinion, this is a suboptimal solution. Consider on Ironman® race day you’re going to ride 112 miles before running a marathon. By definition, that’s a pretty easy bike ride. Then consider that you’re going to run a marathon after a 2.4 mile swim and a 112 mile bike. By definition, that run pace is pretty easy.
The net is that a 56 mile ride at Ironman® pace isn’t really long enough for pacing and nutrition mistakes to express themselves. In our experience, those mistakes usually express themselves after about mile 80. And a 13 mile run at Ironman® pace after a 56 mile bike, also at Ironman® pace, frequently isn’t challenging enough for mistakes to express themselves.
Therefore there is very little you can learn about Ironman® race execution by racing a half Ironman, if done at Ironman® pace, or even if raced as a half Ironman. The distances, and therefore your intensity level, are just too different. Add to this the high cost of registration, travel, etc, and you’re basically paying a lot of money for a race rehearsal that is not as good, frankly, as what you could do for free from your doorstep.
So if you are going to do a half before your full, our advice is to race it as a half Ironman. Have fun going fast and doing cool stuff with your fitness!
You kind of missed my point, as I said to train through the half and bring in the fatigue (and likely glycogen depletion to some extent) into the half. Add in the swim (which very few people ever train before riding, sadly) and you get a very good day to test the body. A 5 plus hour day that has a very long run is a very good test, and one that can help gauge the fitness, hydration and nutrition needed for the full IM. Carrying a significant amount of fatigue into the race will very much simulate how the second half of the race will feel.
Thanks for everyone’s comments. I’ve already registered for the race (received $100 because NOLA was rained out) and I have a friend’s beach house that I can stay for free. Cost isn’t a factor. I’m doing this race one way or another.
I like the idea of racing on tired legs and HIM pace. My only concern is that since my legs are going to be tired my performance will suffer and that I will lose my confidence that I can go the extra distance. Albeit, at a slower pace.
For the half, what percentage of FTP/LT should I race the bike? run?
For the full, what percentage of FTP/LT should I race the bike? run?
Thanks again for the input.
Michael
Thanks for everyone’s comments. I’ve already registered for the race (received $100 because NOLA was rained out) and I have a friend’s beach house that I can stay for free. Cost isn’t a factor. I’m doing this race one way or another.
I like the idea of racing on tired legs and HIM pace. My only concern is that since my legs are going to be tired my performance will suffer and that I will lose my confidence that I can go the extra distance. Albeit, at a slower pace.
For the half, what percentage of FTP/LT should I race the bike? run?
For the full, what percentage of FTP/LT should I race the bike? run?
Thanks again for the input.
Michael
To expand of my question above regarding paces.
I was planning to race the half at 85% of FTP/LT and the full at 75%. Does that sound reasonable.
I’m pretty confident I can keep these paces based upon past performance and projected fitness.
Does that sound reasonable? Or and I just an idiot. Or both 
Only you can answer this question given the limited information. I will say though that you better know what you are doing to be at .75 in a full race with an accurate FTP. That .75 ride needs to be tested 100% with nutrition AND temperature. I believe Pros and Elites are riding around .80 FWIW.
Take a look at this chart, I assume you haven’t seen it before. Where does .75 fall on your expected bike split for the full race?
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/how-to-cheat-by-using-a-power-meter-in-an-ironman/
To expand of my question above regarding paces.
I was planning to race the half at 85% of FTP/LT and the full at 75%. Does that sound reasonable.
I’m pretty confident I can keep these paces based upon past performance and projected fitness.
Does that sound reasonable? Or and I just an idiot. Or both
Are you a FOP cyclist?
Are you very experienced at IM (and HIM) distances?
If the answer to either or both is NO then you’re going to want to back off on those percentages.
75% for an IM is pretty much only recommended for FOP cyclists. While this chart doesn’t encompass all variables it’s a pretty decent guideline that had a lot of research behind it. You can see that 75% is only recommended for the experienced sub-5 crowd. I’d say that 88% for HIM is sort of the equivalent to 75% for IM but 85% is a pretty stout HIM ride that will once again result in a lot of walking barring FOP cycling skills and requisite experience.
All this assumes an accurate and well tested FTP, and that wouldn’t be the FTP number derived from an 8 or 20 minute test.
GMAN,
You really seem to know your stuff. I noted you said a real FTP not from 8 or 20 min test. I agree. What are your thoughts though
on the 5 min all out then 20 min all out minus 5% that Allen and Coggan have in their book. I switched to this protocol this season and have really buried myself in the 5 mins to the point of lights out. Pacing is good. Then the same for the 20 mins with lights out and good even pacing at the end. I feel like the results are giving me a rock solid number. Any feedback? Sorry for the thread hijack…
GMAN,
You really seem to know your stuff. I noted you said a real FTP not from 8 or 20 min test. I agree. What are your thoughts though
on the 5 min all out then 20 min all out minus 5% that Allen and Coggan have in their book. I switched to this protocol this season and have really buried myself in the 5 mins to the point of lights out. Pacing is good. Then the same for the 20 mins with lights out and good even pacing at the end. I feel like the results are giving me a rock solid number. Any feedback? Sorry for the thread hijack…
I just don’t think a FTP test of any length BY ITSELF is all that helpful beyond being a base to start with. The shorter the duration of the FTP test the less helpful that number becomes. I get that we need a base number to start with but that number should be well tested at close to race duration to be sure it’s a good number to use during a race. So if one wants to go 85% for a HIM, go ride 85% for 2 1/2 hours, using the nutrition you’re going to use, and run for 45-60 minutes afterwards. Did it seem okay? If so, do it again a couple of weeks later to be sure. If you cramp up (either muscularly or GI) then back off and try again. Same goes for IM. Want to ride at 75%? Go do it for 5 hours with your race day nutrition and run for 60 minutes afterwards… and then do it again a few weeks later to be sure. If there are problems, back off the numbers. Your 2, 3, 4 or 5 hour power are far more important than 8/20/40/60 minute power. Anyone can be a hero for 8 or 20 minutes.
I know this sounds obvious but you’d be surprised how many people don’t practice their pacing properly before race day and just blow up because they’re hell bent on riding whatever percentage.
It’s also good to be flexible. If you train all the time in 70 degree temps and the race is 90 degrees then it’s best to back off the pacing.