My tri club is having a debate on the cost of race photos , being about $30 per photo etc, even for a digital copy. My wife seems to think there is alot of cost around taking the photos and matching to the athlete and posting online,
My question is … How often would you buy a race photo and what would be a fair price?
On the flip side what could be done to get those cost down to a reasonable amount.
Having just finished my first IM, I was thinking about shelling out some $$ for some photos. I’m reconsidering after looking at the prices, even digital downloads. Seems pretty pricey to me, then again, I’m not in the photo business.
I think it’s outrageously overpriced but then again when you factor in the time they put out, the fact that I’m guessing the majority of the people don’t actually buy anything, the fairly large staff and I’m guessing the fees that they pay the event I doubt it’s that lucrative of a business. I have a friend who does race photography and he does alright but it sure isn’t a huge money maker or anything. He usually has a pretty hard time finding photographers and he does some pretty high profile events. But yeah, you have to wonder if say they dropped the price to $5 per digital would they end up with more total profit as more of us might actually buy a photo or two… If they were $5 or so each I’d probably buy a photo almost every race versus near or never at the current rates.
Cool thing. Some guy took a ton of photos at the last race I did and posted a link on craigslist in the cycling section. Granted you had to sort through to find them but it was pretty cool:)
As the owner of a professional photography studio (emotions studios in Rochester, NY) let me say that $30 isn’t that much. When we shoot something as simple as a cheer leading competition I have 5 photographers there and it takes between 3-5 business days of non-stop work just to get the pictures up and online. I have had several people tell me that since we shoot digital now that it shouldn’t cost that much. Well our digital camera’s are about 8 grand and we pay our photographers about $300 for the day so add it up. $30 is pretty cheap for the service that is being offered in my oppinion. IM may even charge the photography crew a vendor licensing fee.
The question is whether you’d get more than 30 people ordering digital copies at $1 (or >15 at $2) for that rare one person who is willing to pay $30 per photo. I’d guess you would but that’s just my guess. I know I’d be one of the 30 at $1 or 15 at $2 but I’ll be damned if I will ever pay $30 for a digital photo.
Gotta agree with KO. I would likely buy 2 or 3 photos from each event if they were more like $5 each (and maybe some volume discounts?). As it is, I just never buy them because the price is so high (especially in this age of digital cameras). I just got an email today from a photo company for an event I did last year; and they are offering much cheaper photo options to participants. Maybe others will follow suit.
You are correct many people dont under stand the costs involved.I’am not in the photography but the art and custom framing business.What I have to deal with like many others is overhead,cost of materials,labor,taxes etc.
I also agree $30 o.k. you are getting a product that captured a special event/moment.This is something that will last a life time(If you frame it right )
I had to get that in. : )
I have never desired to have a race photo of any race, but I understand that others indeed want it. $30 seems reasonably fair if you consider the cost of a photographer to set up and all.
H
Call the local high school art teacher. See if they’ve got any students that want to make $50 for the race shooting photos of you. Sure, they’re high school kids, but some of them are really talented with a lens and $50 for a few hours of work isn’t bad in high school. Then you get to keep all of the photos. Plus, they likely know the area. Just an idea…
As the owner of a professional photography studio (emotions studios in Rochester, NY) let me say that $30 isn’t that much. When we shoot something as simple as a cheer leading competition I have 5 photographers there and it takes between 3-5 business days of non-stop work just to get the pictures up and online. I have had several people tell me that since we shoot digital now that it shouldn’t cost that much. Well our digital camera’s are about 8 grand and we pay our photographers about $300 for the day so add it up. $30 is pretty cheap for the service that is being offered in my oppinion. IM may even charge the photography crew a vendor licensing fee.
I’m not a pro photographer, but I do take pics…and shop camera equipment pretty often.
I’m not denying what you’re saying as true but…I do have a few remarks and questions…
I think $8k for a digital camera to be “worst case”…not that you can’t spend that much…but I’m not really convinced it’s necessary. Maybe if I were shooting an NFL game from the sideline…but even something like the D3 can be had for $5k (though I AM assuming you already have a bunch of lenses). Also…(I’m guessing)…most of the equipment is likely being used for other work that is being done. Studio…weddings…etc. so while the equipment is pricey…it’s multi-use, and creates more than one income stream.
Getting pics online. If you’re going through and identifying all the people, etc…that would definitely be very time intensive. For something like a cheerleading competition…I’d THINK it is a little different than a Triathlon (which would be more linear). Why not setup a shooter at (for example)…mile 56…and he/she just shoots everyone (maybe even 2 people)…all pics are time/date stamped…and you just ftp upload by time. Its on the competitor to figure out what time they went by that spot. I would think this would save you lots of time…and that can (maybe) passed onto the buyer?
I concede that multiple shooters will cost you money and those costs need to be recouped. I can’t know how many more pics would sell at a lower price, but I would think…it would be easier to sell 4 pics at $10/pic than 1 @ $30.
Again, I’ll admit that since I’m not a pro…I’m likely overly simplifying all this, but it does seem (to me) that the prices listed needn’t (is that even a word? be as high as they are.
I also agree $30 o.k. you are getting a product that captured a special event/moment.This is something that will last a life time(If you frame it right )
I do any where from 5 to 12 races a year, with over 100 triathlons and 15 marathons in the mix. There really isn’t a special event/moment for me. Most of the pics that I’ve seen of me are less than flattering, and are of moderate quality. Most of the rest are hopeless because,well, it’s me that’s in the picture. Honestly, a photographer can only do so much, you know.
However, every once in a while there is a picture that looks worth keeping, or buying, at least until I see the price tag. One of the two pics I did buy (for my wife), had a big photo company logo stamped in the corner. I found that extremely irritating.
So, I definitely agree with most of the others. Sure, you can have the high prices and probably get 90% of your sales from the first timers and/or the do the event once only in their lifetime crowd. Or, you could drop the prices and sell more photos to more people. What the hey, you’ve taken all those photographs anyway, why not make more use of them?
I paid about $50 for a set of ALL of my photos from ALcatraz this year. That was the price to just have the digital downloads. The pictures were really good, and there were about 15 of me. I thought it was a fair price, and it was about the MAXIMUM I was willing to pay.
Personally, I think they should just build the cost into the race fee. Make everyone pay $5-10 extra dollars, and all your photos are free…or like the first 5 are free or something.
And while that sounds like it could be a good idea, I’ve done so many races where none of the pictures are worth anything. And if you do several races a year, do you really want pictures from all of them?
Plus, I’d rather not have one more nonessential thing jack up the prices of entry fees. They’re expensive enough as is…
So what percentage of the people in a race buy photos for $30? Since it costs you so much why not sell them for $300 or $3000 each and recover all your costs on one sale?
As others have pointed out, the prices are too high and thus lead to fewer sales. Most people seem willing to buy at around $5 each. Have you tried that approach and if so, did it result in 6 times the number of customers? Would these people also purchase other items as well?
I’ve bought photos twice. One was my first marathon and the photo package included a video of me crossing the finish line as well as several shots from various parts of the course. The other time was from the first triathlon where I won my age group. However, over the period of time I’ve been running/triathlon I’ve done at least 250 races and would likely have bought photos many other times if the price wasn’t so high. I can’t justify paying more for a photo than the race itself cost and that has been the situation many times.
Seems like you would have the same costs if you sold no photos or 1000, but your profits could be greater the more you sold and you would look for a way to sell more.
Ultraman Canada has a dvd for everyone built into the race fee.The photographer is Rick Kent,ex uber-cyclist from Austin who comes up to do photos for Ironman the week before.Everyone gets to see his slideshow at the awards and then we get the dvd.Awesome!Check it out (the short version) at www.ultramancanada.com .I had to give the race a shameless plug as everyone is talking up Ironman Canada.We will be getting suitably inspired by all the Ironmen and line up for Ultraman five days later.
Professional event photographers are not stupid. If they thought they could make more profit by lowering their prices and increasing sales, they would. They have a price point that maximizes their profit. Lowering the price does not automatically mean increased sales to make up the difference. You might be surprised at how little a lowered price would increase the volume. I think that is why you see event photographers offer packages for every photo they have of you for a flat fee.
I was (note the WAS) a professional event photographer in my 20s. People greatly under estimate the cost of doing business. The price of the photo has very little to do with the paper it’s printed on, or the digital file. It is the cost of taking the photo and* processing* the order. The price had little to do with my sales volume. The only difference was how good the photo was. (and we know event photographers don’t always get the best shots, but that is another story)
Event photographers are operating a for profit business, not doing it for a hobby. Their revenues must be at a level to make a decent NET profit, not just a little money on the side. Sure an individual could sell race photos for less, maybe even maker a little money, but he is not going to catch every athlete several times on the course. He might get better photos, but his volume of sales is going to be limited.
The best shots I have of Joe racing are taken by some very talented athlete/spectators. We are just lucky because they recognize him and know where to send the picture. Thanks!!
While not breaking into a full business model description I can tell you that each of our camera bags has 2 digital camera’s a 400mmL Lense that is about 1300 a 70-200IS that is about 2000 a 28-70 That is about 1800. The lens’s if cared for last a long time so their costs are dispersed over many years. The 2 cameras typically are about 3000 per body.
Yes we use the equipment for studio and wedding/events but it’s still expensive to have.
The other major cost is when you want to buy a picture. it takes someone time to look up your picture, we touch up the pictures a little to make them look a little nicer then we send them to a pro lab (not walmart ) and finally ship them to the client. What we do is offer different picture packages or they can buy all the pictures we have of them (usually about 5-20 depending on event and length) and sell the CD with reprint rights for about $35. If an entire team wants the CD then that is $100 (most popular) Again, as a business if I can’t make $100 per hour in profit then it’s not worth doing. We do have a direct or direct ship method that we use for our weddings. MAYBE I would allow that to be used in a large scale tri.
But let me be clear - I do not shoot tri’s (yet). I’m not sure their is a real good profit margin with this crowd. The stuff we shoot is kids in school or weddings. Both of those types of events people and parents are happy and excited to get their pictures of little Susie.
High School or interested amateurs have their place. I have about 6 high school kids now that work with us. They move equipment around and do most of our sorting of the events. Many eventually become full fledged shooters. But having a camera is not the problem. Getting someone to understand composition and how to lead a bike going 25mph to not make it blurry is the problem. Having someone learn to not just take the picture and move on but instead watch the scene and wait for the one moment that takes a picture from being ok to being great is the issue.
When I do the IM in LP in 2010 I’m hoping to have my own photographer in the chute which is a perk of us having formal photographer press credentials with the NYTimes If it makes you feel better, my pictures will cost me a couple of hundred dollars to bring my photographer up, but I have to do it
I have never desired to have a race photo of any race, but I understand that others indeed want it. $30 seems reasonably fair if you consider the cost of a photographer to set up and all.
H
That’s the sitting fee when I go in to have a photographer spend 30 minutes just on me and my family. At the race they are servicing hundreds of potential customers.
They are/should be allowed to charge what they want to maximize their profits. Would they be smarter to charge $30 and get 10 buyers, or $5 and get 60 buyers?
You know what they could do to get more purchases? take better pictures! The local crew here in my area has photographed literally at least 10 events I’ve participated in and only taken 1 good photo that entire time. They suck! They usually have 1 or 2 photographers who ALWAYS set up at the water (entering/exiting), leaving transition, and running across the finish line.
I don’t want to see myself going 5 miles per hour trying to clip in to my pedals and I don’t want to see myself dismounting my bike at T2 and don’t want to see myself taking my first walking step after crossing the finish line…these guys do it continually! I’m hoping they go out of business soon so perhaps a good outfit can come in an shoot.
$30 is pretty much average for an event photo. They’re about the same as a moto or mtb event service. Some are more some are less. Downhill on a mountain bike is about the cheapest thing i’ve seen them, because there is so much comp for the photos. At some DH races I can choose from 5-6 different photags selling them and you usually get get some for free from just normal people posting them on the forums.
It’s a business that doesn’t have a guarantee of a set revenue so i can see why they’d charge that much. It’s better than the hundreds to thousands they charge a company to use the photos.
You are correct many people dont under stand the costs involved.
Considering your sig line, I’d have expected you to have a different opinion on this. It doesn’t matter what the costs are, if people don’t perceive the value of a picture to be $30, they aren’t going to pay it.
I cannot imagine that one of these race pics would be worth $30 to anyone except in unusual circumstances. In the first place, they’re usually terrible shots. You’re much better off giving your camera to a friend or family member and letting them take a bunch of pics. Free.