Hi all! I have some questions about the geometry of these two oldies: they seem both “largish” sizes, but there are quite a few differences between the two
“grey one”: top tube 56cm, seat tube 51.5cm, tange prestige ultralight sticker, chain-stay bridge, vertical dropouts
“yellow one”: top tube 57cm, seat tube 48.5cm, no tubing sticker, no chain-stay bridge, horizontal dropouts
anyone knows or can explain the reason for such differences?
I know superforms weren’t produced for long (possibly 1989 - 1994); these are possibly both “later” models, being the rear brake cable internally routed (it used to be external on earlier ones)
Thanks!
I’m very confident there is someone around here that can explain everything about these bikes
.
I worked at QR during that time, and have some of the literature about those bikes. Let me dig around to see what I have. Slowman might have something as well… I’ll consult.
Hi all! I have some questions about the geometry of these two oldies: they seem both “largish” sizes, but there are quite a few differences between the two
“grey one”: top tube 56cm, seat tube 51.5cm, tange prestige ultralight sticker, chain-stay bridge, vertical dropouts
“yellow one”: top tube 57cm, seat tube 48.5cm, no tubing sticker, no chain-stay bridge, horizontal dropouts
anyone knows or can explain the reason for such differences?
I know superforms weren’t produced for long (possibly 1989 - 1994); these are possibly both “later” models, being the rear brake cable internally routed (it used to be external on earlier ones)
Thanks!
I worked at QR during that time, and have some of the literature about those bikes. Let me dig around to see what I have. Slowman might have something as well… I’ll consult.
Hello Karen, did you eventually find anything about that “literature” you would like to share? Many thanks!
i do not recall any difference in geometry between superforms, earlier versus later. we moved from the superform to the zero gravity pretty quickly i think. the superform was, i don’t know, maybe 89 to 91? but karen has a much better memory than i do for that.
the biggest differences in geometry, over the first few years, had to do with adaptations to other products:
-
bars like syntace had a large gap between the pursuit bar center and the top of the pad (7cm), versus the original scott bars (more like 2cm), so we had to lower the front end to make room for the bars.
-
our seat angles went from 80° to 78° to accommodate the zero offset seat posts that were becoming popular, and which we used on our bikes.
we also dropped the top tube level with the ground, and that meant that the seat mast was sticking up. we eventually just stopped the seat mast at the top tube level, because we couldn’t trust that people would push the seat post down past the top tube / seat stay junction.
as rear ends got wider (126.5mm to 130mm) i think we lengthened the chain stay a bit so that we didn’t have really bent chain lines.
our first superforms were pretty long. long cockpits. we would have shortened the cockpits, but i think the syntace bar pretty much solved that for us, because that bar had the pads set back a bit behind the centerline of the pursuit bar.
that’s all i can really tell you. that exhausts my memory unless somebody comes up with some data point that jogs it.
back when i had more energy, and vim in my veins, we did a lot of new stuff. new initiatives. perhaps not commonly known: we started the kona bike count, in 1992. we have some data all the way back to then. we started a lot of stuff in common use. we were the first bike brand to have a website up (that i know of). we were full of beans back then.
Would love a Superform but they’re “uncommon” especially here in NZ. I have a Kilo PR and a Redstone (that has sadly cracked) together with a Cannondale something-or-other and a Scott Waimea (also cracked - it has been relegated to Zwift duties). All are 650c.
Also picked up a steel Dave Lloyd with 650c wheels recently, which I’m not sure of the geometry of that compared to a Superform. Likely a copy I suspect. Together with an old Centurian Dave Scott which has very thin carbon tubes into alloy lugs, and although I haven’t ridden it (yet! - Just found some Scott bars to put on it) previous owner suggested it was a bit “noodley”…
Too many bikes. I may have a problem. Be interested to see if there is geometry info on the Superform so’s I can compare it to the current stable!
Thanks Dan!
we can then say that the yellow/blue frame is a “syntace superform” (besides, it spots a “syntace” sticker on the left seatstay), while the red/blue/gray one is a “scott superform”.
I had built the yellow one in “neo retro” style (ultegra 10s parts, semi aero vision wheels, modern saddle and seatpost, profile cockpit with headset adapter etc.); it fits ok, but yet I wonder how the other version would fit and ride , with different stack/reach ratio.
Possibly the differences with tubings, dropouts etc. depend on supply reasons
Would love a Superform but they’re “uncommon” especially here in NZ. I have a Kilo PR and a Redstone (that has sadly cracked) together with a Cannondale something-or-other and a Scott Waimea (also cracked - it has been relegated to Zwift duties). All are 650c.
Also picked up a steel Dave Lloyd with 650c wheels recently, which I’m not sure of the geometry of that compared to a Superform. Likely a copy I suspect. Together with an old Centurian Dave Scott which has very thin carbon tubes into alloy lugs, and although I haven’t ridden it (yet! - Just found some Scott bars to put on it) previous owner suggested it was a bit “noodley”…
Too many bikes. I may have a problem. Be interested to see if there is geometry info on the Superform so’s I can compare it to the current stable!
I live in Europe and, even here, Superforms are pretty hard to find. I bought one frame from another european country off ebay, and built it in “neo retro” style; that was the only one I could spot in my size, in the last couple of years at least.
650c wheels is another interesting story: you can still find a few stocks for sale somewhere, but production is almost stopped at all. About the tyres: 5 clinchers and 3 tubulars types available, to my knowledge