I weigh 160 lbs. Is that too heavy? Will I benefit from them? How do I know if I should buy racing flats or racing shoes? If I do, how much faster will I go? Recommendations?
Rob de Catella weighed something in that range. Go as light as possible. Ideally, it should feel like barefoot with some padding under your foot :-). Anything extra is just going to slow you down and act as a boat anchor. I’ve run marathons in racing flats and training shoes, and I am just as trashed with training shoes as with racing flats and I always go slower !
Read what Phil Maffetone has to say on this topic !
Buy racing shoes when you think that every second is going to count. I have heard that you can gain 1 sec per ounce per mile for shoes that are light. So if you use 13 ounce training shoes then an 8-ounce shoe would be good for about 15 seconds in a 5K, 30 second in a 10K and more than a minute at half-marathon.
Having just raced a half in my 8 ouncers, I can tell you it makes a big difference in speed. HOWEVER, I wouldn’t recommend them unless it is a very important race. All that cushioning your shoes normally provide will now be absorbed by your muscles, bones, tendons, ect. Plan to take a chunk of time off afterwards because you will be beaten up. I took three days off this week after America’s Finest City Half marathon and this morning my hour run was pretty slow. Part of it is the effort and distance, but some of it comes from the beating you take in race flats.
I noticed a couple of posts where you mentioned Nice. That means you are running 18 miles and probably not at blazing fast paces after 130K on the bike. In that case I would just wear my normal trainers. You need the cushioning more than the speed.
At most I would recommend some of the lightweight trainers, but I would not wear one that is below 10 ounces.
Chad
Racing flats can make a huge difference, if at the very least mental. My personal belief is that a lighter pair of racing shoes lets your stride frequency and length much easier. I can notice a huge difference between trainers and racing flats. And I think you’ll be fine in flats, you only have like fifteen pounds on me and I race in them all the time. Always go for as light as possible while providing some support and cushioning.
I have something like 10 different pairs of racing shoes - a pair of sprint type spikes for the 200-800, a pair for 1500-5k, a pair for 1500-10k, two pairs of road racing flats, a pair of cross country flats and a pair of cross country spikes, just to start.
I am not sure of the abolute performance benefits of having dedicated running shoes. Having a light weight pair you keep for racing is nice. They certainly feel good to run in. There is alos the psychological benefits.
160 may be the border line between looking at a real racing flat and a light weight trainer. If you have good bio-mechanics and no history of running related injuries, then you may want to try some real racing flats. Generally speaking, I have found these can be used up to 1/2 marathon distance races for both standlone running races and triathlon running. Longer than this, and I think you need to use light weight trainers.
You will need to train in the racing shoes for a few weeks with both easy and faster paced runs to get used to the lower heel lift, less support and lighter weight. Be careful - they can really do a number on your calf muscles the first few times you use them.
First, I ain’t no expert but I have been researching this for a few months now.
It all depends who you ask. If you read other posts (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=180095;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread)
you’ll see that “racing” shoes are actually better for good running form and to prevent injuries than the typical oversized boots we usually run in, like the Kayanos you bought the other day 
If you go over to Posetech.com you’ll see they reccomend running on racing flats all the time in any surface so that you can strengthen your foot and ankles and let your feet do the work they were meant to do and cannot do because they are wrapped in a running shoe filled of air, gel, springs, etc. However, I know from experience that the change in running shoes has to be ever so gradual.
160lbs is not too heavy for racing shoes and yes you will benefit from them specially in triathlons.
What do you mean by racing flats vs racing shoes?
You’re not too heavy for flats.
There are a number of good 8-10oz models on the market that would suit a “bigger” runner. I have run my last few marathons in Mizuno Wave Phantoms which I love. Others you might want to look at are Asics DS Trainers/Racers…both good lightweight shoes and Adidas Rotterdams.
If I were you I’d go the lightweight trainer route first. Most shoe companies make a lightweight training model in the 10-11 oz range that will give you the cushioning you’re used to but will also be light enough to make you feel faster.
NB 833s or 900s are great shoes. Nike make several good lightweight models.
I only wear flats for 5 and 10k’s. I’ve tried them for longer events but they just beat me up too much(~170lbs, rather flat-footed). In a 10k you’re probably looking at a 10-15 sec gain over normal trainers.
I’m assuming these are for tri’s? At 160, I’d probably go with a good set of lightweight trainers unless you are very biomechanically efficient as a runner. If you’re looking at a pair for Nice, I’d definitely go w/ the LW trainers over racing flats for you, Tom.
Hey Tom…I’m certainly no expert, but I’ve been running ‘seriously’ for about 10 years and typically do about 10 races/season, from 5K to the marathon, plus tri’s. I usually go about 170 lbs (after I lose the off-season weight). I’m also an Asics man, and I was in the Kayano’s for ~4 years before switching to the 2080/2090’s. Anyway, I’ve never raced in flats, so I can’t comment on those, but I do use the DS Trainer for my race shoe. I figure it’s got a bit more cushion to it than a flat, making it a bit more versatile for the longer distances. Can’t really comment on the speed difference between those and my regular training shoes, but even if it’s only psychological (which I doubt), I just feel faster in them.
Some parameters to go by:
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5k-10k if your in proper form anything goes, pure racing flats
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1/2 to marathon, if you have good form and minimal support issues, racing flats to marathon flats like the New Balance rc330
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Ironman, you will break down and I suggest something with a little more cushion and motion control.
Tibbs, go with the Saucony Envy. They are $49.99 in Canada, likely 34.99 in US. They provide a bit more padding than a race flat, no more support than a race flat and will let your foot do what it naturally wants to do. If we all needed motion control supportive stuff, then kids would be unable to run around barefoot. Let your feet do what they want to do. Don’t wrap them in boatanchors. Walk barefoot at home and if you have to wear dress shoes at work, buy the least supportive kind you can find as you spend most of your day in these shoes.
For shinsplints Mr. Tibbs try this.
Lie on your back and stick your foot in the air. Loop a small towel over the sole of your foot (shoes on)…holding both ends of the towel pull down on alternate sides rotating your foot from side to side.
This will give the muscles around your shins a good hard stretch.
I’m interested to hear where you go with this. I a biomechanical nightmare (high arch-underpronater) and anytime I’ve tried running in anything light, I hurt something. I also run in orthodics which offsets the lightness of a flat/lw trainer anyway. I have ongoing achilles issues and have recently started running in Asic Nimbus VI. Overbuilt for my 160 lbs but I figure the more cushioning the better. Let us know what you decide and how it works out.
ahhhh Paul a fellow disciple of the less is more shoe theory.
Check out the thread below on shoes.
I wouldn’t say that body weight is a determining factor - rather it depends on your running style, smoothness and efficiency. I weigh 170lbs but race in asics ds racer and train in the ds trainer (only because the racer doesnt hold up very well).
If you are a pose-type mid-foot striker w/ high cadence and are trying to approximate barefoot running, then obviously the boat-like kayano will just get in the way. Yes, its nicer to run in lighter shoes, but weight of shoe is not the real benefit. The benefit is that lightweight shoes with minimal heel cushion (i.e., flats), allow you to execute good running form. Boats on springs (i.e., kayanos) do not.
If you are a heel hitter or otherwise are an “ungainly” runner then maybe best to stick with what works, unless you are committed to changing. For a non-pose take on why super-padded shoes just get in the way of a truly efficient and graceful running style, and may actually encourage injury-causing running habits, see the chapter on barefoot running in Explosive Running by Mike Yessis.
Tom,
If you love the Kayanos you will probably want a racer with similar fit and stability features. Look at the DS Trainer (a light performance trainer) and even the DS Racer which is a very light stability flat.
Personally, I race in my Kayanos. Runner’s World says you save one second per mile per ounce of savings. I run 9 minute miles in a 1/2 IM so I prefer the comfort and safety of my regular shoes. It just does not matter for me.
Check this article:
http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-52-167-0-3825,00.html
I think a lot of people like flats because they “feel” faster. For triathletes it’s all about the gear.
I’m not convinced that racing flats save much time over light trainers in triathlon running. I’ve got good running form from years of track but it breaks down in triathlon. When I’m slamming my dead legs down at the start of the run, I’m glad to have some extra cushioning.when I was in my 20’s or 30’s racing flats made sense especially for pure running events. In my 40’s with foot issues they don’t any more. I’m now a lean 166.
Physics is physics…which I flunked in HS by the way.
If you want to save weight on your bike where do you look first??? your wheels, because an oz weight saved there is worth about 10ozs on the frame (i pulled that figure out of my behind, but you get the idea)
There is also a multiplier effect in running. Weight saved at the end of your legs is also worth quitre a bit more.
My explanation sucks but the principal should be pretty self explanatory.
There’s a theory about Kenyans which might be bumph, but the story is that they are so dominant because they have very low calve muscle volume. There’s nothing below the knee but a shinbone with a foot hanging off it. Us European types tend to have more density in the calve department and therefore have to expend a lot more effort in our strides to propel that lower leg forward.
I am still amazed by the mindset of most runners. Its like everyone has been brainwashed by Nike into thinking that they cant run more than 5 miles unles their shoes are filled with “recoil bubbles” ™ or have “wonder-springs” ™ in the heels!
God did a pretty good job when he made the foot. Yes, they come in all shapes and sizes, but you’d be surprised at what even the most unassuming pair of feet can do. To be sure, feet don’t like thorns and broken glass, but they propelled our ancestors across the plains at a pretty good clip and they did quite well for bikele too over 26.2.
Now granted forrest gump needed assistance (at first) to help him along. But for most peole, what happens when you anaesthetize the foot (which is what you do when you wear super-cushioned shoes) is that the foot cannot “feel” how to run, and you may not engage or strengthen the tendons and ligaments that are designed to help you run correctly (and which btw have absorbative and elastic capabilities that far surpass anything that Nike makes). Running with numb feet (i.e., in heavily cushioned stability shoes that nike has designed to look cool and sell for a lot of $$ and perhaps correct one or another biomechanical problem) may ironically lead to injury which leads to the belief that we need more expensive and shiny cushioning to help us run which leads to… you get the idea.
…and the best part is that you feet recover every night when you sleep and they become stronger and ready to take on more work load. All for free. The overbuilt Nikes for $140 will wear down and will require replacement. Treat your feet well and they will last you a lifetime for no cost.
You still need to get some cheap shoes with no support and gimmick to provide you with some padding.
For those interested, you can get the ‘original’ Saucony Jazz at Roadrunnersports.com for something like $35. These are relatively light, have no “coils, shanks, stabilizers” etc and have just enough padding to protect your feet from broken glass and pebbles. DO NOT BUY any of the new Saucany jazz products. They royally suck by introducing those plastic shanks and support elements. Clearly the Saucony product manager was asleep as wheel, messing with a perfect shoe and introducing useless injury inducing marketing gimmicks. Their Suacony Envy (which I have not seen at any US on line running shoe sites), Product Manager has the right idea. This shoe is no nonesense. You can buy the Saucony Envy in Canada for CDN$49.99 at:
This shoe for some reason has a “thicker than normal insole under the heel” which I remove and replace with a conventional thin insole for more of a low to the ground racing flat feel.