This is not meant to be a “gotcha!” question. I am really curious if anyone knows the answer to this one. I remember in grade school science that water is the only substance in nature that expands when it freezes and contracts when it melts. So less volume is occupied in liquid form than in solid. Everyone still with me? The Global Warming camp claims that rising temperatures cause polar icecap melting which will lead to rising oceans, and I am unclear on why that would be catostrophic other than oceanfront property being submerged which I suppose is a legitimate concern, I just can’t see why that is correlated with the end of human civilization as we know it. But back on topic, . . . If ice that is already occupying space within the oceans melts, and because of the physical properties of water starts to occupy less space than it did when frozen, why would the oceans rise one ioda? This may be an uneducated, simplistic analogy but if I make a glass of ice water and let it sit until the ice melts, the glass doesn’t overflow. The melted water just occupies the space that the ice was previously occupying. Again I’m not trying to stump the chump on this one. I really am curious if anyone has a good answer to this.
The Global Warming camp claims that rising temperatures cause polar icecap melting which will lead to rising oceans, and I am unclear on why that would be catostrophic other than oceanfront property being submerged which I suppose is a legitimate concern
I just can’t see why that is correlated with the end of human civilization as we know it. But back on topic, .
It isn’t the only thing that will happen. Past events where heat rose this quickly also had extinction events associated with them. Could be bad. this will be a rather long term effect compared to a human lifespan though.
. . If ice that is already occupying space within the oceans melts, and because of the physical properties of water starts to occupy less space than it did when frozen, why would the oceans rise one ioda? This may be an uneducated, simplistic analogy but if I make a glass of ice water and let it sit until the ice melts, the glass doesn’t overflow. The melted water just occupies the space that the ice was previously occupying. Again I’m not trying to stump the chump on this one. I really am curious if anyone has a good answer to this.
Two points:
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much of the ice that is melting is glacial ice that is on top of land currently, greenland for example. Obviously when that ice melts it then flows into the ocean raising the level of the oceans
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water does expand a bit as it gets warmer, and there will be measurable ocean rise even just from the small added heat to them (small per unit volume, but a huuuge volume), even if no ice were to flow into the ocean.
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we have been observing sea level rise, so it isn’t just theoretical. current trend is about 3mm per year global mean.
otherwise, yes, you are correct about your analysis that ice currently floating in the water and melting would cause no rise in sea level.
just a moinor quibble…who the fuck ADVOCATES global warming? i think the word you may have meant was acknowledges.
The Global Warming camp claims that rising temperatures cause polar icecap melting which will lead to rising oceans, and I am unclear on why that would be catostrophic other than oceanfront property being submerged **which I suppose is a legitimate concern, **.
You think?
Especially since oceanfront in that context includes almost all of south Florida.
just a moinor quibble…who the fuck ADVOCATES global warming?
That was my thought too. It’s like calling pro-choice people “pro-abortion.”
In any case, with regard to the OP, if ice were merely floating in the water, then its melting wouldn’t necessarily raise sea levels, but a lot of the polar ice is sitting on land. It’s more like putting a big block of ice on the shore next to a lake and letting it melt. The melted water then flows into the lake, raising its water level. The disadvantage is that you’re now forced to swim a longer distance. The advantage is that the water is now colder so they’ll let you wear a wetsuit.
Especially since oceanfront in that context includes almost all of south Florida.
This would probably fix our Cuban immigrant problem though.
~Matt
If all this glacial ice is going to melt, run into the oceans and raise sea levels, there’s only one solution. Build more hydro-electric projects. Dam up every damn river, creek and stream. Create vast areas of inland reservoirs. We’ve got to sacrifice the land locked to save the coastals.
The ice they are concerned about is on land like Greenland and Antarctica.
If you look at a on-line world population map that shows sea level rise you will see the problem. “Ocean front property” as you put is where a good portion of the worlds population lives. Just look at what happens to the coasts of China, India, and southeast Asia. Start submerging fertile river deltas, where much of the world’s rice is grown, and you will have a few billion starving Asians. This leads to competing for increasingly scarce resources which is what starts wars.
Okay. The ice on Greenland makes sense. I can wrap my head around that.
Sounds like we all should just chill and wait for Obama’s broken window…oops I mean jobs plan, to fix this global climate change.
Is that how I should say it these days or are we back to global warming, I get mixed up with that?
Obama jobs fiat currency moonbat soetoro global warming reid pelosi evolution
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Past events where heat rose this quickly…
Wait. What? Heat rose in the past? Do you mean before people drove cars? How the hell did that happen?
The 3mm rise in sea levels that you believe is happening, in my opinion, is caused by the displacement of water by the thousands of ships of all shapes and sizes that are sailing the oceans in this day and age. Never before in history has this occurred, and you tree huggers throw the global warming red herring at us.
Check out pasha bulker on google and you will see heaps of photos of one of these huge ships that beached itself in a severe storm a few years ago in Newcastle, Australia. Where it was beached was only 100 yards from the run course in the 2005 world duathlon.These ships export coal to China etc and sometimes up to 40 ships can be see off the coast waiting their turn to be loaded.
How many olympic pools would one of these ships displacement fill?
sorry chonga 85, that was meant for Jack Mott
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then we destroy all of the worlds river ecosystems =)
If all this glacial ice is going to melt, run into the oceans and raise sea levels, there’s only one solution. Build more hydro-electric projects. Dam up every damn river, creek and stream. Create vast areas of inland reservoirs. We’ve got to sacrifice the land locked to save the coastals.
Wait. What? Heat rose in the past? Do you mean before people drove cars? How the hell did that happen?
well the last time it warmed this quickly, was 55 million years ago. and we can tell it was due to a massive input of co2, but we are not sure where the co2 came from:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2006/12/6247.ars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene–Eocene_Thermal_Maximum#Possible_causes
today, we do know where the massive input of co2 is coming from because burned fossil fuels have unique isotopes that we can directly measure.
Past events where heat rose this quickly…
Wait. What? Heat rose in the past? Do you mean before people drove cars? How the hell did that happen?
Not only that, but the Ice Age ended, had to have been warmer temps caused that, well before coal-fired electric plants were the norm. All that ice melting, sea level must have been 100 feet lower than now.
you really believe that? did you just sit back and think “wow ships are big” and conclude that is why sea levels rise 3.2mm every year?
are we adding ships to the ocean in a linear fashion like that?
have you done the math to take a stab at what the current displacement of the worlds ships would do to sea levels?
The 3mm rise in sea levels that you believe is happening, in my opinion, is caused by the displacement of water by the thousands of ships of all shapes and sizes that are sailing the oceans in this day and age. Never before in history has this occurred, and you tree huggers throw the global warming red herring at us.
Check out pasha bulker on google and you will see heaps of photos of one of these huge ships that beached itself in a severe storm a few years ago in Newcastle, Australia. Where it was beached was only 100 yards from the run course in the 2005 world duathlon.These ships export coal to China etc and sometimes up to 40 ships can be see off the coast waiting their turn to be loaded.
How many olympic pools would one of these ships displacement fill?
When the ice ages ended, temperatures rose much more slowly than they are now, orders of magnitude slower.
When the PETM occurred 55 millions years ago it was similar to today’s rate of change and there were huge extinction events associated with it.
nobody has ever suggested that the climate doesn’t change. what is unusual about the current change is the rate of it. it is a rate that rarely, perhaps only once before, occurs naturally, and when it did last it fired off an extinction event.
nobody has ever suggested that the only evidence for man made global warming is ONLY that we are observing warming.
we know that we are causing the current warming due to specific observations of co2 isotope ratios (the co2 rise is from US burning stuff) and we know this is causing the bulk o the warming as we can see what spectra of heat is being blocked from leaving the earth via satellite observations, as well as the heat change matching what would be expected for the physics of co2.
I continue to have these discussions and remain civil, providing good, thoughtful information and it would be appreciated if the rest of you would quit ignoring it and repeating the same arguments that have already been addressed by me, to you, countless times.
thanks guys.
Not only that, but the Ice Age ended, had to have been warmer temps caused that, well before coal-fired electric plants were the norm. All that ice melting, sea level must have been 100 feet lower than now.