Dan
In a recent article you state:-
“Conquering Kona requires a special degree of learned efficiency during the bike ride. Normann Stadler is a prime example. If you’re going to ride hard, and fast, and yet conserve at the same time, there is a a style and a tactic that the best riders overwhelmingly tend to utilize. It is my humble opinion that Chris, Simon and Björn have not yet internalized this.”
Can you elaborate? I assume that you are, in part, referring to riding steep and aero. But you appear to have more in mind.
Bill
Bascially Dan is saying that none of these get it, in that they are riding slacker than Dan would recommend. I suppose Bjorne is not truly riding slack, but his hip angle is closed off more than Dan recommends. It makes it tough to run off the bike for mere mortals, but a stud like Bjorn can still pull off a sub 3:20. Macca and Lessing ride slack but with an open hip angle, so they have proven that they can run fast off an Ironman bike at Roth and LP respectively.
I think in general, Dan is correct about riding steeper letting your ride quick and then run fast off the bike. Back in 2000, he got Spencer Smith to shove his seat all the way forward on a forward post on a slack Sigma bike. Smith had been riding slack as a roadie on the Linda McCartney racing team and kept that same slack position when he returned to triathlon. Dan convinced him to move all the way forward like he had ridden when he was an ITU World Champ. Smith tore up the IMFLA course, a few weeks after a race at Kona that he did not finish. In Florida, he rode 4:36 and then ran 2:52.
Dan wrote about this experiment either here on Slowtwitch, or on its predecessor, triathlonlive.com.
Devashish
I am just wondering if there is more to Dan’s comments than simply pushing the “ride steep” point of view (btw, I ride steep, so I am in accord with Dan on this one).
If “ride steep” is all that Dan was implying in the article, then I would reply that Simon seemed to do ok riding slack at Lake Placid, and Macca did pretty well riding slack at Roth, Forster etc. Clearly, riding slack works fine for them (at least at those races).
Does Dan believe that Kona presents any unique challenges which favour steep riders? That seems to be the implication of Dan’s comments, if you read them carefully. If so, what are those challenges which are “unique” to Kona? Wind? And why do they favour steep riders over slack riders?
Dan?
“If “ride steep” is all that Dan was implying in the article,”
I’d assume he’s saying more than that. If not, then he’s in denial about LVL.
Guys, let’s not forget that Dave Scott and Tinley both had ridden and ran some pretty fast times in Hawaii pre 1990, both on slack bikes.
I think there are two items. Riding steep and opening up your hip angle.
You can ride steep with a closed hip angle like Bjorne. Then it is tougher to run well off the bike. I rode in a Bjorne like position at IMC 1995 with a look ergostem (aka Chris Boardman position) and did the bike in 5:22 with 2 transitions, but then my hamstrings, lower back and hip flexors were so cooked from the lower postions, that I ran 4:08 (in a year that I ran 2:53 in a fresh spring marathon). I was riding steep with a closed up hip angle.
Then there is riding slack with an open hip angle like Lessing, Macca and the bulk of ITU pros. You can run fast off the bike this way. The only problem is that it is not aero. Perhaps at LP and Roth, this lack of aero does not hurt you as much, and it certainly works in an ITU paceline (ie Bevan Docherty, Hamish Carter). But with the winds in Hawaii, not being aero kills you, just to stay with the Hawi Express peloton, forget about making a break off the front.
So I believe, this is what Slowman is alluding to, although, we need him to pop in and amplify.
“Can you elaborate? …you appear to have more in mind.”
- riding steep, yes.
- higher cadences, and this and steeper seat angle go together.
- power applied evenly throughout the ride. this almost always means riding the hills less powerfully than one would intuiively want to.
- in light of all that, gear choices that allow the above to happen.
all this has as its goal riding economically, quietly. yes, there is the occasional exception to this, certain people have been successful who haven’t ridden this way, but very few and far between.
What do you mean by closed and open hip angles?
Did Steve Larsen ride steep? I seem to remember hearing that he switched back to a slacker road position in 2002 or 2003 & had less success.
Anyway, I remember watching the Hawaii 2001 video while riding my trainer - Steve’s cadence was 100-105 rpm (I synched up my pedaling with his while watching the video.) That approx cadence seems to be my sweet spot for sprint & olympic races, but is 100+ rpm effective for IM distance?
When your knee/femur hits your chest/stomach your hip angle has closed up.