So I’m going to be buying another bike. And I have it narrowed down to a P4 Evo or a newer speed concept. Some of the pros and cons are pretty self-explanatory obviously the rear brake on the P4 is a cam butt working on the rest of the bike would probably be simpler than the speed concept. Obviously getting my hands on a speed concept or at least parts for 1 would be easier.
But for those of you out there who have had one if not both of these please give me your two cents.
P4 is pretty long and low. To match my old Shiv TT was going to require sizing down. Decent handlebars are a DIY proposition. Specialized managed to beat the P4 in the wind tunnel by using a pretty crapping bar combo, so the cockpit needs to be pretty high quality and little to no steertube exposed. Replacement water bottles are pretty much nonexistent. I haven’t seen the adapter for the replacement brakes, but the stock P4 is a disaster. TriRigs would be my choice of brakes.
SC is a pain to build and just changing risers requires more work than it should be. I really like eTap on the SC because it eliminates the all that wiring hassle.
So I’m going to be buying another bike. And I have it narrowed down to a P4 Evo or a newer speed concept.
Curious how you landed on those 2 options? What else have you looked at and rejected and why? What do you have now?
Good about the P4; long and low (if you need that), good low yaw aero, looks cool (unusual), BSA BB, non integrated cockpit (do your own). Bad on the P4; poor rear brake, tall bottom bracket (15-20mm taller than current standard), shallow head tube (not so good at high yaw), poor tire/wheel clearance, poor torsional stiffness, expensive if in decent condition.
Bad thing about most newer bikes; wide bottom brackets and no low Q options. Definitely true of Trek and Cervelo. The Trek SC cockpit is the biggest negative IMO. Changing stack and extensions is a PITA from what I hear. I’d pick a P2, P3, or P5 over the SC. And I’d pick a (rare) Litespeed Blade version of the QR PR3 over all.
It’s a tough question to answer, both have pro’s and con’s. I’d guess from a pure “which will I go faster on” in most triathlon settings, it’s probably the SC. The wheels/tyres you have/are going to use (specifically the rear) would be a big determining factor for me overall. On the flip side, I don’t love the SC’s cockpit… not a big issue if you nail it at the beginning and never change your fit, but if you want to tinker some it’s possibly going to require buying different stems/monorisers.
I think it boils down to which headache you want to compromise on. 
Those two options get me the closest to my reach which can be difficult to hit if not impossible without a extremely long stem. And I would actually even be shortening it up a little bit to hit my numbers on both of those or changing how I ride with my elbows on the pads instead of at the very back image. Center to pad breach of 580 eliminates a lot of bikes and I don’t want to go beyond a size 58 as I’m only 5"11.
As for what I currently ride and I am keeping I have a felt da in a 58 2013. I bought it as new / old stock and had to go with you slightly older version because I could still get the 0 degree rise 110 stem which they don’t offer on the newer version with the integrated front brake.
Specialized managed to beat the P4 in the wind tunnel by using a pretty crapping bar combo…
there’s no way
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to tack on to what rruff said…
any proper TT position on the SC, unless you’re a legit narrow-tall guy, is going to require max reach on the armpads of the SC and will require you to purchase the mono converter thing so you can use longer extensions.
As a fitter, I see this as mandatory anyway, so you can get a quality ski bend extension onto your bike at the right distance from your pads.
So factor that into your budget.
A P4 requires and Alpha One slammed IMO. There’s no other option. Ride that P4 like it was meant to be ridden.
So you wouldn’t necessarily recommend the alpha x?
I like how you can hide everything on the speed concept but a couple of the people I know that have them to make it sound like a pain to adjust. And I do have plans of putting on the mono plugor whatever it’s called so that I can run whatever extensions I want to however you actually lose some reach when doing that but I have an idea on how to gain some of that back.
Eric anything else out there I should be looking at it would get me close to 580 in a size 58. When I say close I mean at least 565.
you lose some reach due to one fewer hole for pads in the mono thing, but it’s not useable reach unless you have really short arms, so it’s a wash.
You can probably get your reach on both bikes, but like others have said you have trade-offs.
I have a P4, and I’d probably pick the SC if I were you, assuming you get the low-far stem you need and the extension adapter.
I work on tri bikes and have worked with P4 and SC.
Yes the brakes can be a issue with the P4 and the SC.
The rear brake on the SC can get gunked up real quick.
As far as the bars with th P4 up can use anything and yes you can upgrade the brakes.
I used the stock rear brake with tririg front for a year it was ok but not so much with carbon clinchers.
I got one of the 3D printed rear brake adapter and mount Magura RT8 brakes.
It fits well and you can use a tririg brake on the rear.
You can find a few sets of Magura RT on eBay.
I have someone making one out of Aluminium for security.
What kind of racing are you planning on doing? IM, sprints, TT’s? Consider storage for flat kit and hydration/nutrition. Just on that alone, the SC wins hands down.
And folks that say the SC is a pain to adjust… it’s not IMO. It is more of a pain if you have mechanical (if you need to change out monospacers) but if you have di2 or etap, it’s not an issue. If buying new and P1, it will come with all the various monospacers and stems.
please update that nasty cloth bento so a sleek and aero hard plastic one 
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The front-end on the SC is not very complicated. If you use mechanical it’s a PITA to take apart but with Di2 or eTap (especially eTap) it’s a 10 minute job to switch out a spacer.
On the other hand, adjustability of the SC front end is huge. The P4 will be lower but I think you’ll be limited in reach especially if you go with a bar like the Tririg which has a builtin stem. I actually compared these a while ago using the Tririg fit calculator.
Like Eric said you’ll need the plugin because the regular mono extension won’t fit you unless you’re a fore-arms on pads type or a midget.
The SC will let you use a wider range of wheels and tires and has brakes actually work and are super easy to adjust with a small hex key. You won’t need to pay an extra $1000 for new bars and $300 for brakes and all the upgrades that will be stock on the SC etc. Storage on the speed concept is better, cabling is cleaner.
The P4 would be a great TT bike when set up with the right equipment but when it comes down to aerodynamics, wheel and tire choice, nutrition setup I’m thinking SC will be a better triathlon bike.
So I’m going to be buying another bike. And I have it narrowed down to a P4 Evo or a newer speed concept. Some of the pros and cons are pretty self-explanatory obviously the rear brake on the P4 is a cam butt working on the rest of the bike would probably be simpler than the speed concept. Obviously getting my hands on a speed concept or at least parts for 1 would be easier.
But for those of you out there who have had one if not both of these please give me your two cents.
FYI the fit guide at TriRig gives you a a reach of 565 to mid-pad for a 58 P4 on their calculator
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FYI the fit guide at TriRig gives you a a reach of 565 to mid-pad for a 58 P4 on their calculator
Yep.that would be pretty close so I would have to move my elbows up a little bit rather than riding with them on the back edge.
As for mechanical vs. Di2 my current bike is di2 I was actually thinking about going back to mechanical in a 1X. I landed on 1X with my di2 and I just don’t see the point in having di2 if you’re going to run a one x system.
Yep, it’s just that a 1x mechanical shiftier will feel weird in hand. I guess you could add a dummy one on the left. Mechanical would be cheaper too but on on the SC will make life a little harder if you plan to travel or if you want to make changes in stack. Not sure how cabling works on the TriRig bar but it could be less cleaner with mechanical vs Di2 or eTap.
Also my comment on reach (TriRig vs SC) was based on comparing a Large SC with a 56 P4. A 58 will have more reach (still less than a L SC by 1cm or so) but at the expense of stack.
As for mechanical vs. Di2 my current bike is di2 I was actually thinking about going back to mechanical in a 1X. I landed on 1X with my di2 and I just don’t see the point in having di2 if you’re going to run a one x system.
Other than being a bit of a pain to build/adjust with conventional shifter cables, the Speed Concept is an amazing bike. Storage is well thought out, the bike is fast (quite a bit of data on this), handles well in crosswinds… it’s just a great bike.
My 2 cents as I have ridden a P4 the past year and have cabled/worked on a SC before:
Your fit will obviously be the most important piece. The P4 gives you more fit options since you can use any bar/stem combo out there. With the Trek, you may need to buy different stems/spacers/aero bar extensions.
SC brakes are quite good and powerful once they are setup. Takes a bit more work to do so, but if you have barrel adjusters to play with the width, they can be easy to manage. P4 front brake is nice and exposed to work on - but the stock rear brake is garbage. Run the adapter plate.
Limited tire clearance on the P4, but from a pure TT standpoint, 23mm are your best bet.
P4 is pretty light overall, which feels nice, but I do find it to be a bit flexy. Trek is bulkier, but offers better triathlon integration and improved stiffness.
P4 wheel/tire clearance is a real limiter. In my case, only flat discs would work. Any bulge disc would rub agains the brake mounts.
The rear brakes on the P4 and Gen 1 SC seemed to leave most wanting more (not sure about the SC gen2). People on this forum have devised a bracket to replace the rear brake with a tririg or Magura (which seems to work quite well).