Proper Role of Hips in Running

Triathlon Forum
1

I’ve had a lengthy losing battle with a hip/ham. Lotsa therapy, couple months off, and even some use of PCs, all to no avail.

So tonight, on one of the very few runs I’ve been doing, I paid closer attention to my running technique. Especially the hips. At a slow pace (say ~9:00 miles), my hips really don’t naturally move much. Mostly the legs just go. I consciously relaxed my stride, my hips, and found a lot more “rotation” in the hips, or twist at the waist. I tried to use a more swimming-like kick/stride from the hips. This happens more naturally at something like a 7:30 pace for me, but even then isn’t as relaxed as it could be.

This didn’t make the injury feel any better or anything, but it also didn’t feel like any more strain at 7:30 than it did at 9:00.

I hadn’t really thought about how the hips are supposed to be used before. Any stride gurus out there want to opine?

2

In my personal experience…your hip pain may be a result of overstriding. Especially since you mentioned the fact that you are twisting at the waist. Running is not accomplished by viewing your legs as a pendelum…which would cause the twisting. Can you hold your arms out in front of you/elbows locked/hands together and run comfortably? If not, then you are overstriding, especially if you can’t do that at a 9min pace.
Please understand this is based on my philosophy of running (Pose), so i will not be interested in arguing with anyone about this. However, i will be interested in providing info based on my experience with running injuries.
david k

3

I’ve had hamstring issues still & have been working hard to improve my running specifically reducing my stride among other things. The PT said some of my ham problems was really a manifestation of a tightness in the low back pulling on it. With yoga & stretches losing up my lower back so it moves & has the ability to rotate which it didn’t previously does make a difference running. While I am not twisting from side to side it does help me run more relaxed. I try to keep my body up & down with head in line with my body & then moving forward. I also thing of the little lasers attached to my hips & try to keep them pointed forward.

One question I have wondered is which way should the pelvis be. It’s supposed to be forward but is it rotated up or down vertically?

Barb

4

Aztec,

 This is the best I can do.  Check out this thread and look at the pictures of Coe.  That's what you should look like at high speed.  The hips look pretty stable to me. 

 Standing up straight and a high stride rate can fix a lot of problems.  Is your cadence at at lest 180 steps/minute?
5

“Check out this thread and look at the pictures of Coe”

What thread?

6

The thread with the pictures of Coe!! What…you’re too lazy to search through a few thousand threads? Fine…here it is:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1047593;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

; )

7

Yep, try to copy Coe’s form next time you run the 800 meters…you’ll do great. However, after that fails miserably in a tri see if you can find pictures of Alberto Salazar running from back in the 80’s.

8

Yep, try to copy Coe’s form next time you run the 800 meters…you’ll do great. However, after that fails miserably in a tri see if you can find pictures of Alberto Salazar running from back in the 80’s.

Or you can go to my web site and see some video of Meb running right now.

And, you have got to give the PC’s some time. If you are still unbalanced with them on the bike you will still be unbalanced on the run. If you are balanced using the PC’s (endurance and power wise) on the bike then there is probably a structural problem going on that needs to be addressed.

9

That may be the reason I get hip pain.

jaretj

10

With exception to the length of the stride and the distance the arms travel, the form shouldn’t be any different. Coe is upright, he doesn’t over stride (though one photo it looks like he does), and his hips/shoulder/head don’t rock.

However, checking Frank’s web site isn’t a bad idea. He has some good running videos there.

11

In my personal experience…your hip pain may be a result of overstriding. Especially since you mentioned the fact that you are twisting at the waist. Running is not accomplished by viewing your legs as a pendelum…which would cause the twisting. Can you hold your arms out in front of you/elbows locked/hands together and run comfortably? If not, then you are overstriding, especially if you can’t do that at a 9min pace.
Please understand this is based on my philosophy of running (Pose), so i will not be interested in arguing with anyone about this. However, i will be interested in providing info based on my experience with running injuries.
david k

No, I meant (and think I wrote) that my hips do not rotate/turn much at low speeds and that they open up more naturally as my speed increases (and my stride gets longer). And yes, I can always run with my hands locked, no problem. My hands barely move.

12

Yep, try to copy Coe’s form next time you run the 800 meters…you’ll do great. However, after that fails miserably in a tri see if you can find pictures of Alberto Salazar running from back in the 80’s.

Or you can go to my web site and see some video of Meb running right now.

And, you have got to give the PC’s some time. If you are still unbalanced with them on the bike you will still be unbalanced on the run. If you are balanced using the PC’s (endurance and power wise) on the bike then there is probably a structural problem going on that needs to be addressed.

I’m not pinning anything on the PCs, positive or negative just yet. I just made the point that I have been using them. I figured if I didn’t mention that, then either you or someone would. :slight_smile:

I’m fairly balanced on them; the fatigue seems about the same, and my spin is even, right on up to 110rpm, which is about as fast as I’ve turned them.

Of course, I’m going to give them more time. I absolutely feel the work in same places that I feel running. What I’m unsure of, is whether it’s actually any easier on my ham (and possibly adductor maxis and pectineus – we aren’t really sure which is/are the problem) than running.

13

Aztec,

This is the best I can do. Check out this thread and look at the pictures of Coe. That’s what you should look like at high speed. The hips look pretty stable to me.

Standing up straight and a high stride rate can fix a lot of problems. Is your cadence at at lest 180 steps/minute?

Spot on 90rpm, yes. When I run slow, really slow, that might drop to 86 to 88.

Standing up straight, well, I am straight, but not straight up (leaning at ankle, trying really hard not to lean at the waist!).

14

Yep, try to copy Coe’s form next time you run the 800 meters…you’ll do great. However, after that fails miserably in a tri see if you can find pictures of Alberto Salazar running from back in the 80’s.

Or you can go to my web site and see some video of Meb running right now.

And, you have got to give the PC’s some time. If you are still unbalanced with them on the bike you will still be unbalanced on the run. If you are balanced using the PC’s (endurance and power wise) on the bike then there is probably a structural problem going on that needs to be addressed.

I’m not pinning anything on the PCs, positive or negative just yet. I just made the point that I have been using them. I figured if I didn’t mention that, then either you or someone would. :slight_smile:

I’m fairly balanced on them; the fatigue seems about the same, and my spin is even, right on up to 110rpm, which is about as fast as I’ve turned them.

Of course, I’m going to give them more time. I absolutely feel the work in same places that I feel running. What I’m unsure of, is whether it’s actually any easier on my ham (and possibly adductor maxis and pectineus – we aren’t really sure which is/are the problem) than running.

Well, I presume the PC’s are working your hammies more than you would otherwise use them, at least on the bike, except it is non-impact. whatever is going on, if it is an injury, it takes blood flow to heal, and it takes about 6 weeks of substantial aerobic exercise to develop those new capillaries. Anyhow, time will tell.

If you are pretty balanced and reasonable endurance that is all I would ask to see what they can do. If you were a pure runner I would say 3 days a week on the bike would be enough. Need to give those muscles some time off to heal.

Frank

15

5c Layman opinions: if it’s just at ONE side - as well as leg-LENGTH discrepancies, there are frequently discrepancies in flexibility and stength and shape and proportion, any of which might need accomodation.
You might want to try very brisk walking, to loosen up the hips, with long strides, but be sure not to overstride when running - your foot should be moderately quiet as it hits the ground beneath your centre of gravity. I’ve also had hip flexor pain when I tried kicking more than customary in swim training - is it possible that revving up your run training means you overdo everything else too? j

.

16

5c Layman opinions: if it’s just at ONE side - as well as leg-LENGTH discrepancies, there are frequently discrepancies in flexibility and stength and shape and proportion, any of which might need accomodation.
You might want to try very brisk walking, to loosen up the hips, with long strides, but be sure not to overstride when running - your foot should be moderately quiet as it hits the ground beneath your centre of gravity. I’ve also had hip flexor pain when I tried kicking more than customary in swim training - is it possible that revving up your run training means you overdo everything else too? j

.

Leg length is pretty close. Just had this checked. More at issue is that my foot points outward a bit, and when it faces more forward, my knee collapses inward (a one-leg squat reveals the massive difference in left vs right in that action).

My feet are very quiet when they hit the ground. At certain paces, say below 8:00, it’s nearly silent. I don’t believe I overstride. Perhaps the bigger issue is that my heels don’t come up very high behind me. To get them higher feels artificial and forced.

17

“At a slow pace (say ~9:00 miles), my hips really don’t naturally move much. Mostly the legs just go. I consciously relaxed my stride, my hips, and found a lot more “rotation” in the hips, or twist at the waist.”

How tight are your hip flexors? If you have very tight hip flexors you will have a difficult time extending your leg behind you enough (lengthening your stride) at higher running speeds. You hips will start to twist in order to compensate and give you a little more “reach”. Try running at a higher turnover when you are running faster and see if the twisting goes away/diminishes. As Barry said, higher cadence can fix a lot of problems.

If you are using PCs I would be very cautious. PCs are designed to work your hip flexors. If your hip flexors become even tighter because of the extra stress placed on them by PC training, you are not going to make your problem better.

My $0.02.

Haim

18

“At a slow pace (say ~9:00 miles), my hips really don’t naturally move much. Mostly the legs just go. I consciously relaxed my stride, my hips, and found a lot more “rotation” in the hips, or twist at the waist.”

How tight are your hip flexors? If you have very tight hip flexors you will have a difficult time extending your leg behind you enough (lengthening your stride) at higher running speeds. You hips will start to twist in order to compensate and give you a little more “reach”. Try running at a higher turnover when you are running faster and see if the twisting goes away/diminishes. As Barry said, higher cadence can fix a lot of problems.

If you are using PCs I would be very cautious. PCs are designed to work your hip flexors. If your hip flexors become even tighter because of the extra stress placed on them by PC training, you are not going to make your problem better.

My $0.02.

Haim

Working muscles does not make them tighter. In fact, the aerobic training of muscles helps them to relax better. The best and most obvious example of that is the heart. As the heart becomes better conditioned it relaxes better (it takes energy to relax) allowing increased stroke volume.

Lengthening stride does not come from extending the leg further back. Long stride comes from increasing the force when the foot is on the ground, which means more speed. Extending the leg further back is poor form and needs to be minimized if one hopes to have high turnover, the other element of high running speed. This is discussed on the “running form” video on my web site.

In “normal” people, “tightness” is a ligament/structural problem not a muscular problem.

19

“At a slow pace (say ~9:00 miles), my hips really don’t naturally move much. Mostly the legs just go. I consciously relaxed my stride, my hips, and found a lot more “rotation” in the hips, or twist at the waist.”

How tight are your hip flexors? If you have very tight hip flexors you will have a difficult time extending your leg behind you enough (lengthening your stride) at higher running speeds. You hips will start to twist in order to compensate and give you a little more “reach”. Try running at a higher turnover when you are running faster and see if the twisting goes away/diminishes. As Barry said, higher cadence can fix a lot of problems.

If you are using PCs I would be very cautious. PCs are designed to work your hip flexors. If your hip flexors become even tighter because of the extra stress placed on them by PC training, you are not going to make your problem better.

My $0.02.

Haim
Pretty tight, actually.

20

Sounds like you have some structural issues.
Gait and posture analysis will help you with this.
The Egoscue Clinic in San Diego does a good job with this approach. The less expensive alternative is to buy Pete Egoscue’s book, “The Egoscue Method of Health Through Motion.”
Twist at the waist is not a good thing when it comes to running and walking. It is one indicator that your hip flexors lack sufficient range of motion.
I hate to say this, but there are many PTs who focus on the symptom instead of looking for the cause of the problem.
The beauty of Egoscue’s approach is that it goes right after the problem via some unusual exercises and stretches.
Good luck.