That is something we did not checked at the WT. I was wondering if someone else here has.
There are most of the time small wrinkles on the arms on long sleeved SSs so I was wondering if a short sleeved SS with shaved arms would be even better or at least the same.
Thanks for your comments.
Sergio
I believe that there is data somewhere that shows a very significant gain from a long sleeved skinsuit…unfortunately that particular skinsuit is banned (called TailWings). I have one in reserve for that special race to pull it out for. Maybe nationals next year…
Stephen J
So basically you could ride faster because you do not ‘feel’ the air on your arms? That is going to be hard to assess. 
Sergio
John Cobb has noted that skinsuits are quite “idiosyncratic.” Different suits will test faster/slower on different riders.
My hunch for the fastest skinsuit would be a LS with smooth forearms and vertically ribbed fabric (similar to compression socks) on the upper arms. Since the forearms are level, you want to reduce skin friction drag; but with the upper arms you want to reduce pressure drag via a turbulent boundary layer.
i believe dan empfield did the original (that i saw) assessment of this question, back when he was doing his QR wetsuits.
peggy
i believe dan empfield did the original (that i saw) assessment of this question, back when he was doing his QR wetsuits.
peggy
There was a more recent, where they tried out sleeved, sleeveless, and figured out that sleeved were faster. They used one and two piece. Maybe a little over a year ago? I think desertdude had a link on his blog IIRC.
John
I think you’ve brought swimming study to a bike fight, with apologies to Sean Connery.
Styrrell
That is something we did not checked at the WT. I was wondering if someone else here has.
There are most of the time small wrinkles on the arms on long sleeved SSs so I was wondering if a short sleeved SS with shaved arms would be even better or at least the same.
Thanks for your comments.
Sergio
Sergio -
Found the article:
http://www.dobkanize.com/ShortArticleWetsuit.asp
Summary, sleeved both swimmers improved ~ 5.5 seconds/100, or about 1:23 for an Olympic distance in sleeved wetsuit.
John
Guys, he’s talking about a cycling skinsuit, not swimming.
Sergio, I think it’s going to depend on the design of the skinsuit (just like with skinsuits in general). A lot of the better manufacturers design their long sleeve skinsuits with a bend at the elbow to prevent the fabric from wrinkling. The fabric is supposed to be more aerodynamic than skin. If you can get the fit correct (ie. no wrinkling) then I think the long sleeve suit is likely faster than a short sleeve suit with shaved arms. If I remember correctly, Sergio Jr. is in the Castelli body paint suit, which is supposed to be a very well designed suit.
If I remember correctly, Sergio Jr. is in the Castelli body paint suit, which is supposed to be a very well designed suit.
He can’t use that Castelli suit to race (well at least not UCI races). He is using this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NrWZTapzGI&feature=player_embedded - At least on theory he could be fined from 200 to 10,000 CHF if he does not use the tricolor national champion suit.
The problem with that custom made suit (made in Mexico) is the fabric. Sergio ordered it very tight but the fabric is not stretchy enough and the suit can be worn only two or three times until it gives.
I was asking because if I order a custom suit from Champion -for example- the only way to prevent the wrinkles on the arms (common in most suits when the rider is very lean) is if there are no arms on the suit.
I can understand that the sleeves are more aero if very hairy but I do not understand why a sleeveless suit should be slower if the skin is as hairless as the legs. Shouldn’t then be better a suit that covers also the legs?
Champion brand suits are very good suits but he thinks that the size S might be too loose. Sergio has found that even at 6’ tall he needs an XS suit. It sounds crazy but he likes the suits so tight that it is hard for him to stand up straight. That is practically the only way to prevent the wrinkles on the belly when in his very low TT position.
Sergio
I’m sure you’ve seen this article, but in case you haven’t, it may be relevant. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jst.12/full
When you say Champion, do you mean Champ-Sys? The Champ-Sys speedsuit (note: this is the speedsuit not their standard skin suit) is supposed to be a very fast suit. Jack Bobridge wore this while breaking Boardman’s individual pursuit record earlier this year, so I think at the very least it is likely not a bad suit. The only downside is that you’d have to order at least 10 suits to get a custom suit made, but this may be worth it to you. Note that they make it in SS and LS.
I think the theory behind long sleeve suits being faster is that the surface texture of the fabric is faster than bare skin. I don’t know the exact reasoning, but my guess is that it creates a boundary layer similar to dimples on Zipp wheels. I’m not aware of wind tunnel testing on this, so it is purely anecdotal. Also, in theory, it would be faster for full length legs on skin suits. However, I’m fairly certain the UCI has a regulation not allowing skin suits to extend below the knee.
Edit: see article posted above.
I’m sure you’ve seen this article, but in case you haven’t, it may be relevant. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jst.12/full
I had seen this article mentioned but this is the first time that I have a link to it. Thanks.
Sergio
When you say Champion, do you mean Champ-Sys?
Champ-Sys.
The Champ-Sys speedsuit (note: this is the speedsuit not their standard skin suit) is supposed to be a very fast suit.
Yes it is the Speedsuit.
Jack Bobridge wore this while breaking Boardman’s individual pursuit record earlier this year, so I think at the very least it is likely not a bad suit. The only downside is that you’d have to order at least 10 suits to get a custom suit made,
I was not aware of the 10 piece minimum. That could be a problem, more because the price is double if the order is an urgent “2-week” order.
but this may be worth it to you. Note that they make it in SS and LS.
I am sure this suit will be very welcomed by the other Mexican TT champions. Who could share the cost either directly or by the Federation or a Sponsor but it might be too late for this.
I think the theory behind long sleeve suits being faster is that the surface texture of the fabric is faster than bare skin. I don’t know the exact reasoning, but my guess is that it creates a boundary layer similar to dimples on Zipp wheels. I’m not aware of wind tunnel testing on this, so it is purely anecdotal. Also, in theory, it would be faster for full length legs on skin suits.
I will check the article.
However, I’m fairly certain the UCI has a regulation not allowing skin suits to extend below the knee.
Yes, you are correct. I had already seen this a couple of years ago and I forgot about it. It has to be a short above the knee.
I just talked with the person that manufactured the suit in the video that Sergio has used lately. He promised to build a new better one. He is doing his best effort to build a good speedsuit but there are just not enough good fabrics at hand down here. I will try to see if we still have time to build a Champion suit.
Thanks for your comments,
Sergio
I can understand that the sleeves are more aero if very hairy but I do not understand why a sleeveless suit should be slower if the skin is as hairless as the legs. Shouldn’t then be better a suit that covers also the legs?
I thought the advantage came from the sleeves making the cross section of the pulling surface larger than a bare arm?
Here’s the link to the minimums. Good thing is that once you order 10 pieces once, you can re-order individually.
http://champ-sys.com/custom/minimums
You can order them individually also, but not custom and I don’t think any of their stock color schemes will work for you since they’re all white top with optional bottom color.
Sergio,
Have you thought about ordering a pretty good suit, and then having your guy in Mexico tailor it? I would think he could tighten up the arm seams and make it better, unless the arms are knit 360 degrees and don’t have a seam already.