So apparently I am an overpronator. I could buy shoes to correct the pronation, but is it better to try to correct with body mechanics and a nuetral shoe? I don’t even like to take aspirin if I can deal with pain through natural means so … Interested in opinions. I’m very much a fore-foot runner, but still roll to much after the plant.
Just my two cents, but I would recommend buying really neutral shoes/minimalist shoes to walk around in, and do excersices to keep lower extremeties strong, but when running, I would get some shoes with at least moderate medial support. The problem with full on neutral shoes for serious pronators isn’t so much the pronation, but sometimes the neutral shoes end up making things worse by forcing your foot to move in a direction it is already moving.
I will say that there are some good shoes that they call neutral that I think are still provide moderate medial support. You can tell the extent of the medial lateral support by the deep flex groove on the bottom of the shoe…Shoes like Saucony even though they have a neutral line alot of the shoes have a touch of medial support with a flex groove on the bottom that curves in along the inside of the sole of the shoe…Shoes that are extremely neutral like the Nike Pegasus have a deep flex groove that curves along the outside of the shoe providing more lateral support for underpronation and/or supinaiton.
I think people too get to caught up with how they pronate…everybody is created differently, and based on your biomechanics has developed to function in the most efficient way possible…If you pronate it is all good, as long as you work on great running form and keeping you mucsles flexible, strong and balanced…I think it is wise to give your body a little support where it needs it, which is much different than putting things under your feet that make up for other more serious issues…
Pretty common issue -
Here is a guy I saw just a few days ago (just a snap shot of his video), “true” forefoot runner, filmed slo mo barefoot, in Mizuno “stability” shoes, Newtons, with and without orthotics someone put him in. Yes, he is battling PT tendonitis trying to get ready for Boston this year.
He actually did “best” in his Newtons as far as how he runs since the forefoot lugs gave him more stability than I thought. The problem with “forefoot running” is that it is NOT proper form like you mentioned. We all “forefoot run” at speed (a little different for all, but about 15 mph for me, faster for others, full on sprint for others still). Others never do, even at 4:30 min/mile pace (Bekele the best world class marathoner example usually cited). He was running at ranged from 6.5-10 mph here. The issue? The PT tendon firing longer and more eccentric trying to decelerate “pronation”. This is one of the issues more forefoot adapters don’t often realize, that you have MORE pronation issues than running in nasty, bulky motion control shoes since you still must push off the ground somehow and that rate of change now has a much larger force vector. Can you “adapt”? Of course, if that is what you wish.
To your question - does it “go away”? Sure, eventually - because he had to stop running completely for a few months … then back at it, then reinjured, then seeing multiple medical specialists, then … your foot doesn’t really strengthen like you are probably thinking and more info is needed on what ankle issue you are having (joint, tendon, etc.).
I’m going to move through this in a piece-by-piece manner:
Here’s where we are all the same: we are looking for less vertical oscillation during the gait cycle; we are looking for impact to occur at or slightly behind the knee, rather than in front of it (meaning landing around your center of gravity, rather than behind it); to make this occur, in general terms you will need to have a shorter stride and increased cadence to effectuate it.
Here’s where we’re different: where on the foot principal point of contact will occur; actual stride length; cushioning preferences.
As such, this will move piece by piece through the ramp/drop, and then on to cushioning.
Ramp Angle/Drop
The correct ramp angle or drop for a person is dependent on numerous factors, such as cadence, stride length, and principal point of impact. There is a range of what we could consider to be acceptably “midfoot”: some are oriented slightly more towards the heel, and others moreso towards the forefoot. Then, of course, you have your extremes: excessive heel strike, excessive forefoot strike.
No shoe can force you into a principal form. You have to effectuate that change yourself. Your shoes can only do what your body tells them to do. It is possible to have a complete forefoot strike in a shoe with a 2:1 heel:toe ratio. You can heel strike in VFFs, and everywhere in between.
In general, those who are landing slightly aft of midfoot to true midfoot will be able to go towards shoes in that effective zero drop category: think stuff like the Kinvara, or the Minimus product line. Those who are too far forward onto the forefoot, running into troubling Achilles and calf issues, will often times benefit from a shoe with more drop/ramp angle, so that the heel will actually have a light impact, distributing load forces evenly throughout the foot. Those who are completely heel striking? Also will benefit from a more “traditional” shaped shoe.
Cushioning
The amount of cushioning a shoe has is a complete consumer preference, to a point. Although we may have been born to run barefoot, also remember that we were not designed with concrete or asphalt in mind. Therefore, all shoes should have a definitive fit characteristic: a relatively wrapped upper in the heel through the midfoot, at which point it opens and allows the toes to splay properly. Almost all vendors (with the exclusion of New Balance these days, believe it or not) have really opened up the fit of the forefoot on their shoes to accommodate as much forefoot splay as possible.
Gauging off of the increase in stress fractures associated with really thin midsoles up here in Portland, ME, we generally will advocate going no lower than the Minimus for every day training. There are exceptions to this, of course. Within each product range (whether in the effective zero category, or all the way to traditional 2:1 ratios), you may find something with more or less cushioning. This is generally to taste.
Pronation Control Devices
Believe it or not, but some of us will still fall outside of the general range of “neutral” pronation, even if we are a midfoot or forefoot striker. This can wind up festering itself further up the kinetic chain as an alignment issue, whether it is IT band syndrome, PF syndrome, meniscal issues, shin splints, etc.
There are options available within each category of footwear for this, such as the Kinvara/Mirage, Gravity/Motion, DS Sky Speed/DS Trainer, Green Silence/ST5, etc.
The key takeaway is that there is no universal type of product that will be effective. Instead, we must continue to take into account the individual at hand, and work with their mechanics and stride to find the appropriate type of footwear to let them run injury free, whether that’s a pair of VFFs, Brooks Beasts, and everything in between.
thanks for those great responses. The problem manifests itself in very painful ITBs, sartorii (maybe) and lateral quads after intense or long (10+ mile) runs. My plant , at least according to the video analysis, is pretty good. My problem is that I roll then keep rolling to the inside to the point of my ankle crashing inward. Happens on both sides and the pain in both legs is very symmetrical so at least I get points for being balanced…? ankle looks like this (
Albert–
Nothing wrong with pronation. It’s how the body absorbs shock, stores elastic tension, and then eventually returns it assuming all the parts work together in a coordinated fashion.
Buying shoes to correct the problem is futile as you’re probably just chasing symptoms. Most often the etiology of pronation issues can be traced to the pelvis. A man should have between 4-7 degrees of anterior pelvic tilt. A woman 7-10.
Anterior pelvic tilt is coupled with femoral anteversion. Thus, as the knee moves medially, something in the kinetic chain eventually has to follow. Beefed up shoes which keep the body’s natural shock systems from working (in this case pronation of the foot) can easily cause compensation up the kinetic chain. That lack of movement has to be made up for somewhere. So the knee ends up paying the price as one the lower body’s triple extensors (the ankle) is effectively in a cast and cannot move naturally (the hip is naturally more durable than the knee, so it will typically take more time for symptoms to manifest here–but they can and will without appropriate action).
Commonly, the pelvis can be excessively tilted forward due to tight hip flexors (rectus femoris, psoas, tfl, etc) and/or weak abdominals often coupled with weak glutes and overly tonic lumbar erectors. This condition is exacerbated by the seated workplace environment. Add to that the muscles which get overworked in triathlon while others get neglected, and you have set yourself up for a lower cross syndrome.
And even if the above muscles are stretched/strengthened appropriately (a rare occurrence), the abdominals can still be inhibited secondary to inflammation of the gut wall. Pain inhibits function. Sense the abdominals are innervated by the same nerves which innervate the small intestine, inflammation in the gut can turn off the abs. Thus, a corrective exercise program is ultimately ineffective until the inflammation is resolved.
So what inflames the gut wall? Stress (of any sort), of course. But I’d consider:
gluten
alcohol (red wine, especially)
otc or prescription meds
processed foods with artificial colors/flavors
any food which you may be intolerant of (the culprits are often the foods you eat frequently).
Proper periodization of your training should be examined, as well. You say the pain develops after intense or long runs. If it doesn’t happen on other runs, consider fatigue as playing a role. Your body shock systems are eccentrically loaded with 2-7x’s body weight while running. At 90 steps/minute per leg, that’s a lot of load for the body to handle during the course of a 10 mile run. So maybe the loaded tissues are not as strong eccentrically as require of them. Or maybe your run program doesn’t allow for enough rest or you are over your individual training threshold.
A final problem with shoes (and one of the reasons minimalist running is becoming so popular again) is they throw off the timing sequence of all the body’s shock absorbing systems. Unable to fire at the time and in the order in which they have developed for eons (i.e. the dawn of man), the body feels as if it has an extra hip or knee or ankle when it’s wearing “supportive” shoes. It’s one of the reasons why running in loose sand feels so weird/difficult/slow–the timing sequence to which the body is accustomed has changed. In fact, you’ll probably get one hell of an ab workout if you go running in the sand when you’re not used to it. That alone will demonstrate the need for proper core functioning (and thus pelvic positioning) during running or any gait pattern.
You can e-mail me, Albert, if you’d like to discuss further.
–Andrew
Agree with above post. Prontation is the body’s natural form of shock absorption
In my case my heel only just touches the ground lightly, and therefore there is no hard plant where profanation becomes an issue of stress on any supporting joints, ligaments, tendons
I would go minimalist, and try and tread more lightly
60-minute run today. Dumped the orthotics. Keyed on 180 cadence. Followed up by extended stretching session. Run wasn’t super-fast, but it wasn’t a jog either.
No pain in the quads or ITBs…hmmmmmmmm. Hamstrings are pretty cooked but not in an i-can’t walk-up-the-stairs kind of way. I think perhaps jsut fallout of getting used to a higher cadence.
Hi,
As Big mentions, if you can strengthen the muscles in your feet, ankles and lower limb so that your foot is more stable on landing then this would be beneficial. This is where the promotors of bare-foot running come in. You need to build up strength in the first place before you go bare-foot (or in your case, orthotic-less) otherwise you end up exacerbating any instability.
To strengthen your feet:
Stand with your weight evenly on both feet (no shoes), and then scrunch your toes up to ‘claw’ yourself forward a few centimeters, and keep doing this for a couple of meters or until you feel the burn.
Again bare foot - walk from heel up onto toes, heel up onto toes for ~40 steps, then walk back staying up on your toes. You can build up to doing this with a weight on your shoulders.
I was doing these in trainers but without it makes a huge difference - the little muscles in your feet really have to work to keep you stable.
You can do these exercises and others in a sandpit (or on the beach if you’re lucky enough to live near one) - again less stable and so more effort to maintain position.
Other things to do would be exercises with therabands (big elastic band) - round your foot and tied to a post/chair and then pronate/supinate your foot to strengthen the relevant muscles.
Once you’re feeling OK with these you can move on to calf strengthening exercises and even some low level plyos. This webpage has some good lower limb strengthening exercises: http://www.intelligent-triathlon-training.com/Drills-for-speed-training.html