I think athiests have a couple of hurdles that contribute to the low (as polled) perception by broader society; one is a problem with the human nature of the rest of society, the other a problem of their own nature or maybe just actions.
The first being a difficulty in acceptance because of the unknown (fear of the unknown) by others. If one is tied to a philosophy of some sort, it helps everyone else more quickly be able to create the mental “box” that the person exists in. It’s something we need and want to be able to do.
The second difficulty is more of athiests own doing, and is the air or position of condescension and arrogance that they automatically take in any discussion of faith.
Interested in folks thoughts relative to these initial posits, and in your thoughts or corrections in general as to why athiesm is in the pooper as far as trust goes.
You have hit the nail on the head with regard to the self importance and arrogance that is often exhibited by some atheists. Just look around the lavendar room at the examples of insult, demeaning and overall intolerance the self ascribed atheists on this forum treat the most outspoken christian, Gurudriver.
It is not enought to simply disagree with someone, the examples seen here show they have to belittle and demean them as well. Not a group of folks you want to spend a friday evening with.
I mentioned this forum to a person that posts on the regular tri board the other day, and mentioned the talks about religion etc. His response was " yes, I have read some of those posts and choose not to engage in them because the atheists just seem like very unhappy people."
This may not be true, but the perception is there.
the ‘issues’ you describe are levied against the label ‘atheist’ - not with the atheists themselves. Who knows who’s an atheist? Sorta like I don’t trust quilters because they’re always cutting corners - but I don’t know who’s a quilter.
My first inclination is to say that the main problem with athiesm is that it’s misspelled, but I suppose that would put me in the “condescension and arrogance” category.
More seriously, there’s no doubt that some atheists are defensive (for reasons that I think we can agree are understandable), and that might explain some of the attitude problem you’re talking about. I think the important thing to understand is that there are some very smart and sincere people on both sides of the controversy, as well as some people on both sides who haven’t thought out their positions very well.
The main reason why I personally find the atheism/religion discussions in the LR interesting is because they touch on some philosophical topics (not to mention physics, biology, etc.) that in my view are very important in their own right, quite apart from questions of religion.
I think there may be another reason that Atheists are disliked. (or perhaps this is a subgroup of one of your items).
And that is the association for “making a big deal” out of stuff. We used to call it “making a federal case out of something.” Going back to the monkey trials and the pledge of allegiance, I think in many people’s minds athesits are making problems where there really aren’t any.
Similar type feelings are held about others, for example Vegans and, even born again religious types. If you really want to, you can turn just about anything into an argument or a divisive issue.
And, rightly or wrongly, I think many people view Atheists this way.
You have hit the nail on the head with regard to the self importance and arrogance that is often exhibited by some atheists. Just look around the lavendar room at the examples of insult, demeaning and overall intolerance the self ascribed atheists on this forum treat the most outspoken christian, Gurudriver.
It is not enought to simply disagree with someone, the examples seen here show they have to belittle and demean them as well. Not a group of folks you want to spend a friday evening with.
I mentioned this forum to a person that posts on the regular tri board the other day, and mentioned the talks about religion etc. His response was " yes, I have read some of those posts and choose not to engage in them because the atheists just seem like very unhappy people."
This may not be true, but the perception is there.
Just my experience.
You can take your post and substitute athiest with Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc and it would be just as accurate. Unfortunately, we tend to stereotype people by using the worst examples in every group.
…
The second difficulty is more of athiests own doing, and is the air or position of condescension and arrogance that they automatically take in any discussion of faith.
I think this only the case with “radical” atheist same for any religion. There will always be a group, maybe small but vocal group that will take that position. But there are a lot of quiet atheist’s out there who, don’t care to make converts.
Hey we are right we know it and if the rest want to believe in fairy tales that is there delusional choice.
I think there may be another reason that Atheists are disliked. (or perhaps this is a subgroup of one of your items).
And that is the association for “making a big deal” out of stuff. We used to call it “making a federal case out of something.” Going back to the monkey trials and the pledge of allegiance, I think in many people’s minds athesits are making problems where there really aren’t any.
Similar type feelings are held about others, for example Vegans and, even born again religious types. If you really want to, you can turn just about anything into an argument or a divisive issue.
And, rightly or wrongly, I think many people view Atheists this way.
Well, YOU don’t think they’re real problems. Maybe some people disagree.
The second difficulty is more of athiests own doing, and is the air or position of condescension and arrogance that they automatically take in any discussion of faith.
do you really think we are any more condescending and arrogant than religious people?
like do we have guru and BK beat on that front, really?
Going back to the monkey trials and the pledge of allegiance, I think in many people’s minds athesits are making problems where there really aren’t any.
You really don’t believe that preventing science from being taught in science class, because it conflicts with popular mythology, is innocuous, do you? Many people view the insertion of God into a formerly secular pledge, at an opportune moment by religious and political opportunists (did any religious folk complain prior to that the pledge was somehow inadequate?), as problematic.
These are not insignificant issues. They certainly bear mentioning, if not fierce debate.
I’m with ya there on the pledge.
But the monkey trials?
First, at that time was it even atheists pushing that agenda or just scientists?
You think it was a waste of time that people fought to have the most important theory in the history of biology taught properly in schools?
if that is really what you think, I may be poised to get really arrogant and condescending.
I may have already done that, sorry.
Going back to the monkey trials and the pledge of allegiance, I think in many people’s minds athesits are making problems where there really aren’t any.
Well, YOU don’t think they’re real problems. Maybe some people disagree.
First, my comments were not based upon my opinion but based upon what I believe others opinions to be.
Keeping that perspective in mind, I’m sure that the people fighting for those issues are very concerned about it. The large majority doesn’t see it as a problem.
How this opinion may change over time is what is interesting.
For example, in the 1950s the outside aggitators were stiring up problems in the South and were viewed this way. However, that opinion has changed over time and many more now believe that those were valid issues to complain about.
Will time change the opinions toward atheists/issues in the same way? We’ll have to wait and see. But I think many agree that the attitudes toward racial civil rights have changed much more than “atheist issues” (for lack of a better term) within the last 50 years.
We need to stop with the hasty generalizations here, just because one is an atheist does not mean they are a communist. Just because an individual is a woman does not mean she is pregnant etc. Are we all not collectively intelligent enough to get past this point?
We need to stop with the hasty generalizations here, just because one is an atheist does not mean they are a communist. Just because an individual is a woman does not mean she is pregnant etc. Are we all not collectively intelligent enough to get past this point?
