Pro Teams - not an American thing?

Triathlon Forum
1

Is ‘team’ stuff just not a thing American long course triathletes do, or are they being deliberately excluded?
Or are American teams so low profile they don’t show up on the (my) radar?
Leiferman is the only current athlete I can think of, though Sodaro till last year and Kanute till 2021.

BMC Pro Tri: Hoegenhaug, Nilsson, Leiferman, Madsen, Dapena, Neumann, Buckingham
https://bmcprotriathlon.com/team/
And 20/21/22 Pallant, Matthews and Sodaro

hep
Bækkegård, Keinle, Simmonds, Philipp, Iden, Clavel, Reischmann
https://hep.global/sports-team/

BahrainVictorious13
Frodeno, Brownlee, Lawrence, Ryf, Luis, Skipper, Parker, and added just now (per Ig) Matthews (and two others, maybe one long course?)
https://bahrainvictorious13.com/athletes/
Alumni: Bens Hoffman and Kanute (latter till 2021)

2

Please educate me on what pro teams are for triathlon

Is it a relay sort of thing?

I honestly don’t know what they are

3

Please educate me on what pro teams are for triathlon

Is it a relay sort of thing?

I honestly don’t know what they are
Basically a group of triathletes that share a bunch of sponsorships and wear similar kits. They will usually have 1 team training camp a year that is more about getting good photo/video for the rest of the year. I actually quite like the concept and wish it were a bit more prevelant in the US, but it requires having at least one or two sponsors willing to put up some kind of real money, which is probably why it doesn’t exist much in the US.

The closest thing we have is probably the Real Tri Squad, which is mostly canadians and americans. Fun group of people and solid athletes, though not currently the caliber of a team like BMC (except for Jackson Laundry).

4

Who organizes the teams that do exist? Did BMC organize their team, or is it organized by someone else and they’re just the “title sponsor” because they chipped in the most money? Seems like for these teams to exist, there has to be:

  1. Someone to organize and run the team
  2. Some degree of cooperation between all of the brands/sponsors
  3. Athletes willing to jump on board

Not sure which piece is missing that this doesn’t really exist in the American pro ranks, but it seems more prevalent for amateurs. There are lots of amateur teams either organized around brands (Team Zoot, Wyn Republic, Spaero, etc.), or coaching programs (Purple Patch, Tower 26, etc.). I know it’s a slightly different situation with amateurs, as the companies organize the teams basically for their own benefit (of course there are benefits for the athletes too–there isn’t a shortage of people joining the teams!). But it is interesting that there aren’t more North American teams for pros, especially since there are elsewhere.

5

I certainly don’t think #3 is holding this back. At least in my mind, as much as I love designing a unique kit every year, having one big relationship that covers all aspects of sponsorships is kind of the dream.

I suspect that it usually works by one person kind of acting as an agent and rallying sponsors around the idea. The failed Vespa team was clearly operating this way with Crowie as the catalyst, but it seems like Vespa then failed to deliver whatever they had promised.

I’ve always been curious what the deal is with BMC though. They have some great athletes but honestly they do so little other than have their athletes race in their kits.

I do think part of the issue with getting these teams off the ground is that at least for the endemic sponsors (zoot, purple patch, etc), they know it’s a smarter business move to mass support a bunch of people at no cost/profit to them rather than pay a half dozen pros. Look at some of the more successful teams listed in the first post; Bahrain, HEP, Vespa*, putting up money are likely the result of someone high up in the org having a personal interest in triathlon. And actually now that I think of it, we do have Waterfall Racing in the US now. Another example of someone with money made through something other than the triathlon industry spending it on triathletes.

6

Hey,

The BMC team is closer to a cycling team, it has a management structure and BMC are just the title sponsor (as you said). The managers then find all the other sponsor, coral the money and then pay athletes a salary. It suits athletes that can’t necessarily get the large single sponsorship deals as it pays a good wage, provides good Kit and without having to manage a dozen small sponsors yourself. Hence why Sodaro and Matthews likely left.

Bahrain is different, it’s more of an illusion of a team. It’s in reality more of a corporate sponsor with a huge budget. The camp isn’t so much as a camp as an attendance fee event and there is no involvement in athletes other sponsors or training etc.

Triathlon teams serve little purpose in triathlon other than to make it more effective for certain sponsors and athletes to get paid or promoted.

7

Yeah, that makes sense that a team structure with their pre-constructed bundles of sponsors / support would be more attractive to pros that are less likely to have their own deals. I could see it also being attractive to up-and-coming pros who don’t yet have the connections or notoriety to secure sponsorships on their own. But it does take a deep-pocketed or well-connected someone to organize and manage the whole thing, as you said.

8

The BMC team is closer to a cycling team, it has a management structure and BMC are just the title sponsor (as you said). The managers then find all the other sponsor, coral the money and then pay athletes a salary. It suits athletes that can’t necessarily get the large single sponsorship deals as it pays a good wage, provides good Kit and without having to manage a dozen small sponsors yourself. Hence why Sodaro and Matthews likely left.
Bahrain is different, it’s more of an illusion of a team. It’s in reality more of a corporate sponsor with a huge budget. The camp isn’t so much as a camp as an attendance fee event and there is no involvement in athletes other sponsors or training etc.
Triathlon teams serve little purpose in triathlon other than to make it more effective for certain sponsors and athletes to get paid or promoted.I had stumbled on an interview with Bob DeWolf, the main man of BMC ProTri
https://www.stitcher.com/...red-by-2xu-212061115 (ffwd to @16:01)
And that seemed to be along the lines described. They replaced Sodaro and Matthews (after their step-change level of performance) with Madsen and Buckingham.
Looking at their website they have ‘proper’ team camps, normally on Lanza, with lots of photography and a clear identity (bike/trisuit/helmet/wetsuit). They have a set of sponsors, who seem to stick around: maybe only shoes are left to individual choice/partnership.
Good ST interview here on Waterfall Bank ‘team’: https://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/Ben_Atkins_and_Waterfall_Bank_8235.html

9

Pro Teams in Europe are more a part of their culture than it is here. It is an extension of the cycling based models, not just pro tour but also European based teams (I have handled just a couple of these). The reason you really don’t see it in the US is that we have a different culture toward individual sports. There have been several attempts at this model in the US over the years but it just really never caught on and almost always involved a “benefactor” as opposed to a sustainable sponsorship model. Anyone remember team J David??

Regarding triathlon, I have helped a couple of athletes on these pro teams (see my disclaimer below). Yes, it pays the athletes a base salary (security) that they may not have elsewhere. It also bundles sponsorships which takes a huge burden off these athletes who are not prepared for/skilled at/or have enough time for. Only the really top folks can negotiate for other non-team sponsors, but usually also need to be not competitive with other team sponsors and many times not sport based. Base salaries can be very enticing ( many are six figures+) and there are performance incentives that can be quite lucrative. For some it may even include benefits like health insurance, which is HUGE for someone trying (pun) to be a pro athlete.

Most of the time these teams are good for the sport since they provide a bit of infrastructure to the athletes. But, make no mistake - on the course they are still very competitive with each other.

10

Well we used to have that Trek Factory Racing Team that was a level below their star athletes I think. And then there was the old Timex Team?

11

Maybe it is this group now, Octagon? https://www.triathlete.com/culture/at-team-octagon-elite-setbacks-spur-growth-and-reinvention/. Not really a pro team now though it seems.

12

Trek Factory Racing has typically been trek’s featured athletes (Taylor, Knibb, Holly Lawrence, Ben Kanute). TO was on the squad for years but doesn’t look to be anymore. I wouldn’t call them a team though. It seems just get a higher level of support from Trek over other athletes trek sponsored.

https://racing.trekbikes.com/teams/tfr-triathlon

Team Timex became Suunto Elite which became Team On Pace which became Octagon

13

There have been American “teams” over the years, the problem is most of these teams have 2nd/3rd tier pros on them. They never have the budget to have multiple big time names on them, and when athletes do make it big they jump out to being on their own.

The biggest draws to these teams are that they typically have a bike deal, which is harder to come by than a straight cash sponsor in our sport. The biggest draw back is you end up with a bunch of other sponsors that go along with it, and most of the time you are giving up performance benefits with some of those other sponsors that you are required to represent (kit, helmets, saddles, cranks, etc.).

BMC is the only team I can think of that has outlasted all of the other teams, and it was great to see Bob (& the team) get their first World Championship this year after being so close in the past. But the same thing happened there that had happened with Team TBB in the past. You get an athlete early in their career, help them along and then they start performing well and they become too big for your team and you can no longer afford them, and off they go to their own. TBB had ended up building protections into their contracts after this happened with Chrissie, but at the end of the day the athlete will be able to typically leave and find more money and support on their own once they reach a certain level.

I wouldn’t consider Bahrain, HEP, Trek, VESPA as “teams”, they are more so title sponsors for most of the athletes they support, not requiring all the athletes to have the same sponsors as BMC & Real Tri Squad do.

It’s a tough concept to get to succeed, you need a big enough financial backer/sponsor, and then enough brands to build around the team, along with athletes that want to be setup in the team environment.

When you look back at history of the sport, the most successful team is TBB which was built around a coach and then a business man (Alex Bok), the coach brought all the top athletes, and Alex brought the rest, and the amount of World Champions and IM/70.3 Wins that flowed out of that team will likely never be matched by another team. Then you have Team Abu Dhabi, and my knowledge of that setup is very minimal, but believe Rachel Joyce was on the IM World Champs podium when on the team, and Faris Al Sultan was also on the team. And BMC is now the best represented team with the longest standing history in the sport currently.

I wouldn’t say it’s not an “American” thing simply because it’s not really a triathlon thing, and it’s really really hard to make it succeed long term, and it should never be structured around a single country in terms of athlete reprsentation.

14

Brad,

That is a great summary and explanation.

Bob De Wolf is a is certainly among the best people I have dealt with in the sport. Bringing corporate sponsors like Uplace to the sport in a way the make a “Team” concept at least somewhat sustainable. He has been able to continuously piece together a sponsorship group to keep this going. Very admirable.

There are other long (ish) running teams in Europe e.g. Erdinger which has been around for a very long time. Remember Commerzbank with Marino Vanhoenacker, Timo Bracht, etc? For a number of years they each had there personalized vans driving around Kona. That was a BIG deal! Deutsche Post had has teams for 30+ years, many of those headlined by Lothar Leader - still one of the greatest of all time and I believe still an ambassador for them. Although these are just a few examples, we really haven’t seen anything like it or at that level in the US.

It will be interesting to see if the new breed of athletes tempt more of these type teams. I think it is good for the sport.

15

team abu dhabi had racherl joyce and pete jacobos and i am pretty sure he podiumed in kona while on the team.
there was also the dresdner bank team with stadler and vanhonehacker and bracht and was also sponosred by scot zipp and profile propably the the best paying team
the swiss ewz team also payed a solid salary and had ronnie schildknecht as head liner

the other long term team is team erdinger which should be a couple of years older than bmc which i think started as team uplace 2009 or so while erdinger started in 2006 , a lot of the current team erdinger members came through the perspective team which supports young up coming talent . angert, funk bleymehl dreitz and i think fromhold came through the perspective team which likley makes them the most valuable team for talents, and i guess while not real a team for seniors, as people can have different sponsors ,because of the the perspective team i would call them a real team.

funnily enough ironman did have a development team for a few years around 2003 to 2006 or so.

16

the other long term team is team erdinger which should be a couple of years older than bmc which i think started as team uplace 2009 or so while erdinger started in 2006 , a lot of the current team erdinger members came through the perspective team which supports young up coming talent . angert, funk bleymehl dreitz and i think fromhold came through the perspective team which likley makes them the most valuable team for talents, and i guess while not real a team for seniors, as people can have different sponsors ,because of the the perspective team i would call them a real team.
Team ERDINGER Alkoholfrei elite squad:
Bleymehl, Angert, Funkl, Dreitz Frommhold, Lange, Raelert (all German). Think Brit Bartlett now in squad (?2021). Philipp was in that squad.
https://int.erdinger.de/markenwelt/alkoholfrei/sportler.html

See the new Bahrain Victorious athletes for 2023 now all named: Matthews, Watkinson (why?) and Wilde.

17

Would love to see more pro groups in the US. There are some development teams like Project Podium & JP Elite. Team Psycho sponsors some US pros. Lots of club teams like Zoot/EMJ/Enve/Full Send/etc have discounts for their members. There are also a lot of amateurs on those squads moving up into the pro ranks. Wondering if there can be pro standards for some of those groups to get better (full) discounts, and keep those athletes on their teams.

I come to triathlon with a running background. In the northeast we have a ton of good running clubs like NB Boston/GBTC/BAA/WMDP/etc who have standards that, if you hit, can help with race entry fees + gear. I know triathlon is a lot more expensive but there’s gotta be a way to do something like this.

I don’t love USAT score ratings but, for this example, say every team member gets a 20% gear discount, anybody who has scored 90-100 gets 35%, anybody who has scored 100-105 gets 50%, and any pro gets a full or close to full discount. Something along those lines. I know some might not love that because then there are tiers & not everyone would be getting the same thing but I’m not saying to change current discounts.

There should be more ways to give back to developing athletes.