It would seem we have a lot of people on the board who like PowerCranks, or at least several vocal people who do. We also have several vocal people who question the marketing claims of Frank Day, and the basis upon which PC’s are supposed to work.
Given that triathletes (myself included) love gadgets, I am willing to bet that there are people on Slowtwitch who train with both a power measuring device and PC’s. I am making a request: Provide me with your power meter downloads, preferably before and after PC’s. I will give you access to a secure server to upload them, and I will sign a nondisclosure agreement that states I will never reveal your individual training files or identity. I’ll provide summary graphs and analysis. What I am looking for are any quantitatively demonstrable signs of improvement, perhaps even the “40% improvement” that has been bandied about. I am looking for something that we can actually discuss, instead of the same old tired arguments.
Are you also going to include a control group of people who aren’t using PowerCranks, to show that any gains are not simply a result of increased training?
If you are serious about ending the debate “once and for all”, you have to approach it scientifically so that people can’t just complain about the way the data was collected and dismiss it.
At the very least, I think this would include an experimental group (people using powercranks) and a control group (no powercranks). Everybody has to enter the study with a similar level of fitness (preferably somewhat trained already). Everybody in the study has to follow the same prescribed training program to completion. And of course, there have to be enough people in the study for the data collected to be statistically significant. Without scientifically collected data, any conclusions are pretty flimsy and can be shrugged off, like it or not. The reason this study hasn’t already happened is because it’s pretty involved and it would cost money that nobody wants to spend. So I don’t see any “once and for all” conclusions being drawn any time soon.
You are right. However, I have literally reams of data over multiple seasons from cyclists training without powercranks. So all I really need is data from the PC’ers.
We aren’t going to get people on the same training program. However, this should at least give us an idea of what might be possible. If the PC’s show this incredible 40% improvement, this will be a no brainer.
I’d volunteer to be part of the control group…I’ve had an 11% increase in 4 minute interval power and a 7.9% increase in FTP over the last 3 weeks. I guess I should have been using PCs…sigh.
You are right. However, I have literally reams of data over multiple seasons from cyclists training without powercranks. So all I really need is data from the PC’ers.
We aren’t going to get people on the same training program. However, this should at least give us an idea of what might be possible. If the PC’s show this incredible 40% improvement, this will be a no brainer.
Phil
Ugh, that is exactly what Luttrell did. wonder what the result was?
From a scientific basis “reams” of old data doesn’t hack it. It is why these studies are so hard to do.
But, I welcome your effort. Hope you get lots of takers.
(edit: I might add, see if you can find out if they trained exclusively on them or not. And, if not exclusively, what percentage of the time on PC’s. I would love to see that data.
(edit: I might add, see if you can find out if they trained exclusively on them or not. And, if not exclusively, what percentage of the time on PC’s. I would love to see that data.
I will be happy to report that information as well, if the athlete is able to provide it.
BTW, any takers yet? I’ll bet the sound of crickets chirping is deafening. How long are you going to wait for inputs? You might want to put a time limit on it to discourage any data “manipulation” (hint, hint). I’m not saying anyone might actually do that…but, better safe than sorry…
Ahhh, yes. If only it were a debate, in the purest sense of the word. From wikipedia: Debate (North American English) or debating (British English) is a formal method of interactive and position representational argument. Debate is a broader form of argument than logical argument, since it includes persuasion which appeals to the emotional responses of an audience, and rules enabling people to discuss and decide on differences, within a framework defining how they will interact.
Informal debate is a common occurrence, but the quality and depth of a debate improves with knowledge and skill of its participantsas debaters. Deliberative bodies such as parliaments, legislative assemblies, and meetings of all sorts engage in debates. The outcome of a debate may be decided by audience vote, by judges, or by some combination of the two.
Began training with power early in the year, and got PC’s in April.
Otherwise, not much. But I am hopeful.
Hey, I have been trying to get this stuff for eight years now. Joaquin was the first with the best. Good luck! At least with the speed data you can calculate power (as I did with Phil Holman and many others) as it is unlikely their aerodynamics improved with PC’s. In fact, they most likely got worse - at least that is my assumption.
In addition to those I have noted above, I have a volunteer who consistently rides the CT, but won’t use the cranks until after IM-WI.
Other than that, I’ve been mostly getting people saying that PC’s obviously work, and that they don’t need a power meter because they now “feel more efficient” or can “feel the improvement in power.”
I’m hoping there will be some people on the east coast who see the thread this morning. And of course, this may just be a giant waste of time.
(Not to hijack my own thread, but if there is anything I have learned as a coach, it is that lots of people are afraid of having their particular approach to training validated or criticized. There are lots of coaches and athletes out there afraid of power meters, because it provides objective, quantifiable evidence as to whether the athlete is improving or not. It is a risk.)
If somebody is willing to throw me a free power meter, I’d love to do it.
However, any “findings” will inevitably result in a 10 page thread with Frank Day and Andrew Coggan bickering back and forth…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…“is not”…“is too”…
would one of you two just call “infinity” and get it over with??
