Feeling a bit discouraged about my Power Meter. I have been faithfully plugging in numbers for three months now. Not sure I am seeing the benefit or that I WILL see the benefit of using my PM. Data seems like it is or can be easily skewed. I haven’t ridden outside much, but when I have the numbers seems very erratic because of wind, hills, etc. I am not sure how this will be more beneficial in races because of the erratic numbers. All-in-all light days seem too light and my overall numbers are not nearly as high as I would have expected. Tell me again why I purchased this thing? Not trying to be discouraged about it, but I simply saying I must be missing something. Everyone raves about these things. What am I missing? chris
What does a typical training week look like for you? If you train the same way you did before you got the powermeter, it becomes an expensive speedometer.
Well, I am using a type of plan which was put together by a coach/friend. When I say “type” I mean to say it gives specific workouts for the week, but not daily specifics. I have a long ride 1 (endurance), long ride 2 (tempo and threshold workout) and short ride for the week. I have done LT TT tests to establish power zones for these workouts. Does that answer your question?
chris
Two of the best investments I’ve made are a Powertap and InsideRide Rollers. Because of work/fam I bike inside ~90 in the morning during the week. The PM allowed my to target my workouts, including recovery days, and has resulted in significant gains (probably better with a coach, but I’m broke).
I suggest reading anything you can get your hands on regarding training with power. I bought all of the books & bibles and read them many times & still refer to them constantly. Save all of your workouts - once you get a better understanding of the #'s you’ll need them for reference. Also, many coaches will work on a consulting basis to review your data… Good luck!
First, it is my understanding that your power should not change based on climate or hills. Your goal is to keep your power the same no matter what the terrain or weather…but to do that you have to stop watching your speed. That is what gets discouraging.
A lot of people train to hard on their easy days, and train too easy on their hard days. Perhaps this is you?
Power is a lot more accurate than perceived exertion or HR. Depending on what you are training for, do you think your workout would feel too easy after keeping that pace for 4 hours?
If your long days are easier than 75% of your FTP then they are too easy.
Your hard days should have 30 to 45 minutes of riding near FTP broken up as you want. Finish the rest of the time with 75 to 85%.
If you want to see improvement then you will have to ride considerably harder than you were before. You could easily do that with HR or pace but the powermeter makes it easy to quantify.
You can do it.
jaretj
If your numbers are erratic because of wind/hills then you really need the powermeter. For example learn to start clicking down some gears when coming to a hill and then powering down the other side. If you have a powertap I would make the suggestion of slowing down the averaging to 30 seconds and consider having cadence as the middle number rather than speed. So for example if you have a an endurance power zone of 189-230W try to stay in that zone for your endurance ride, go towards the top of the zone for climbing as you will drop while going down. Learn to keep a constant cadence into a headwind rather than trying to grind out a big gear.
Light days seem too light? Great, thats how they should feel, you should feel almost guilty for riding that slow on a recovery day. Edit: I should add since switching back to Tri from pure bike racing I have removed my recovery days for time reasons.
Numbers not as high as expected? Welcome to the real world, and remember that you can take a lot of the talk about average power for races on this forum with a huge chunk of rock salt.
Power was one of the best additions I made to my training 8 years ago, but I think it took me at least one season to figure out how to use it properly. Get yourself Racing and Training with a Powermeter by Allen and Coggan.
Kevin
I know nothing about power meters, but you are complaining that the power readout is too variable. I wonder how often it’s sampling? Is that something that’s configurable? Perhaps it’s telling you your average power output over every .5 second interval? Can that be adjusted to average your current power output over 2 seconds at a time for instance?
A PM is just a tool. If you are not using it correctly (you’re not) then you just have a really expensive bike computer.
If you are using it correctly, it is one of the best investments you can make to improve your cycling.
I recommend reading Training and Racing with Power by Andrew Coggan as a start, and then either doing your workouts based on that - or get a new coach who understands the concepts surrounding training with power meters.
and finally… you have to put the work in. A PM only gives you feed back. It will take time and sweat to get faster.
Feeling a bit discouraged about my Power Meter. I have been faithfully plugging in numbers for three months now. Not sure I am seeing the benefit or that I WILL see the benefit of using my PM. What am I missing?
Mayhew: “It’s a tool, not a bolt-on motor.”
Erratic numbers??? What type of power meter are you using? The wind, hills etc have no effect on the power meter per se. The power meter is measuring how much wattage you are using at a particular time. Your meter is probably displaying the wattage every second which can make it hard to hold a steady range. As others have mentioned you should smooth out the wattage display to give you an average reading every 5 seconds. But you don’t have to live and die by the number being shown. You want to develop a feel. I’ve been using my Powertap for less than a year but I definitely have a feel for what 260 watts feels like. When I’m doing an interval I only glance at the power meter every few minutes just to make sure I’m on track. On days where I’m feeling a bit off I may reference the display more often but I can definitely “feel” my training zones. The power meter is just a tool as others have said. I still use perceived exertion along with that tool.
Feeling a bit discouraged about my Power Meter. I have been faithfully plugging in numbers for three months now. Not sure I am seeing the benefit or that I WILL see the benefit of using my PM. Data seems like it is or can be easily skewed. I haven’t ridden outside much, but when I have the numbers seems very erratic because of wind, hills, etc. I am not sure how this will be more beneficial in races because of the erratic numbers. All-in-all light days seem too light and my overall numbers are not nearly as high as I would have expected. Tell me again why I purchased this thing? Not trying to be discouraged about it, but I simply saying I must be missing something. Everyone raves about these things. What am I missing? chris
x2 on the 5 sec smoothing. To add to what everyone else has said, something also that intially helped me with my power meter when I first got it and I was doing a set of intervals (e.g. 3x10 min) I would put the wattage in the AVG field rather than real time watts. It will give you a broader base upon which to focus, i.e. you will be focusing on keeping that power number at X avg watts for the rep rather than driving yourself mad looking down at it every 3 sec trying to stay at a particular power level. As I became more comfortable with my power meter, I would put the display in real time watts and see how I could execute a good enough pedal stroke to stay within a 5 or 10 watt range the whole rep (on flats). But that’s for later. For now, try the AVG field and I think you will find it much more manageable. Hope that helps.
I really feel that you are short-sighting yourself in looking at average or smoothed info…
If you want smoothed data, use your HRM…
It is a tool (and i LOVE the chris quote), but you have to learn to accept and read the information…
And yes, I am biased…
g
as everyone else has said…a power meter is a tool. if used correctly, it can be extremely beneficial. since you have been using it for three months, you should be doing your third ftp test (one at the outset of your program, and repeated every 6 weeks). a change in ftp results in a change in all your training zones. try and do your testing under as repeatable conditions as possible, and do the test the same each time. consistent testing, adjusting your zones accordingly, and setting up a sensible training plan based on the data will bring results…maybe not as fast as you expect, though. your fitness and strength at the beginning of the plan combined with your available training and recovery time are important factors in how you will progress. keep at it.the rewards will come.
I really feel that you are short-sighting yourself in looking at average or smoothed info…
If you want smoothed data, use your HRM…
It is a tool (and i LOVE the chris quote), but you have to learn to accept and read the information…
And yes, I am biased…
g
You’re kidding, right?
3 - 5 sec sampling rate is quite advisable. HR isn’t providing you with smoothed data – it is a lagging indicator (of roughly 30secs or so).
The OP needs to be more clear about his concern but he should post his PM settings to help clear up these type of issues.
Thanks, Chris
A lot of people train to hard on their easy days, and train too easy on their hard days. Perhaps this is you?
This is why I want a PM.
I really feel that you are short-sighting yourself in looking at average or smoothed info…
If you want smoothed data, use your HRM…
It is a tool (and i LOVE the chris quote), but you have to learn to accept and read the information…
And yes, I am biased…
g
Your opinion, personal preference of course. But my opinion is that if the real time watts are driving the OP somewhat crazy and he focuses on the overall task for the rep (i.e.) 300 watts for 15 min for example, doesn’t he accomplish that goal whether he is viewing real time power or average power during his rep if the end result is 300 watts? I realize power might vary more greatly in the latter than the former during the rep but I think what I hear the OP saying is he needs something to make power training have more value to him and to make it somewhat lower maintenance. So my answer is keep it simple until…
x2 on reading and studying all that one can during that process
You’re kidding, right?
3 - 5 sec sampling rate is quite advisable. HR isn’t providing you with smoothed data – it is a lagging indicator (of roughly 30secs or so).
The OP needs to be more clear about his concern but he should post his PM settings to help clear up these type of issues.
Thanks, Chris
Nope, not kidding at all.
3-5s smoothing advisable why? Give me 1 VALID reason why you would want to average data? Or use the AVE screen in training for extended periods of time. If you do so, you are apt to over/undershoot power by large margins at the mid to end of a long(er) interval as the number samples increases to a point where the impact of each sample is depreciated.
Do you record @ 5s averaging (again, why one would do that as well would be a good question other than storage on long road trip)?
Heartrate IS smoothed data, not merely lagging. If you doubt that, there are several simple workouts/tests that would demonstrate that. Or I would be happy to post several examples that shows it
I agree re: the OP needing to be more clear, but I stand 100% behind what I said above. You get out of the tool what you put into it. If you do not learn how to use it, it is merely the most expensive cadence/speed sensor.
g
Many of the suggestions given are great. One of the best things I did was I bought, read, re-read and then put on my nightstand as a reference the Coggan/Allen book on training and racing with power. I’ve raised my FTP over the winter by focusing in on “Sweet Spot” training as described around page 80-ish. I’d also be careful not to start by doing sub-threshold or threshold intervals that are long…unless you have a lot of experience with them. I’d start by building with 8-10 mins to 12, 15, and 20 min intervals over a period of time. If you get all eager beaver on that stuff early you will burn out and as indicated in the book, you’ll not have a broad/solid base to work from when you do the harder stuff.
Much of my improvement came with experimentation, trial and error AND I also did the majority of the workouts on the trainer (using a CompuTrainer - not required but helpful). My point with the indoors is it gave me a more controlled environment in which to “practice” riding in those higher wattage zones. For smoothing out my power on hills I did a lot of practice. Found some long and very gradual hills (not crazy steep stuff, but very gradual) and concentrated on smoothing out my cadence and keeping things even. All of this helped.
I’d take a look at the Coggan/Allen book and give it a try.
Your opinion, personal preference of course. But my opinion is that if the real time watts are driving the OP somewhat crazy and he focuses on the overall task for the rep (i.e.) 300 watts for 15 min for example, doesn’t he accomplish that goal whether he is viewing real time power or average power during his rep if the end result is 300 watts?** I realize power might vary more greatly in the latter than the former during the rep but I think what I hear the OP saying is he needs something to make power training have more value to him and to make it somewhat lower maintenance. So my answer is keep it simple until…
x2 on reading and studying all that one can during that process
RE: the bold, especially the*** italics***:
Yes, but if the OP is using a 15-30s smoothing than there is a HIGH probability that the end result is not going to be 300w, and especially probably that Pnorm will not be 300w at the end of the interval.
I agree that it isn’t the easiest thing to learn, and folks talk about it all the time (here, on wattage, etc), but it is a skill that IMHO is best to learn early than late.
I had to go WAY back in my data to find a HRM strap file to address lakerfan’s lag/smoothing arguement.
But to be clear, if it were merely lag, then the duration of response would/should be ~equal in duration to the stimulus. If it is smoothing, than it response is an averaging… and after a load should decay…
so, based on this:
which do you think it is? smoothing or lag?
Seeing as how the HR takes almost 8x the stimulus time to return to pre-stimulus levels, I am going to stand by my original statement.
So, to the OP:
Yes, you could use smoothing, but it is in your best interest to not smooth the data.
also, which powermeter are you using (especially inside!)? Could be a contributing factor to the “problems”
I hope that helps.
g