Thinking about investing in a pair, do they work?
use search function, but to answer your question, no.
uh oh…
I disgree. I think PC are a great training tool. Initially I only lasted 20-30sec on them and now I can ride them like normal cranks. In fact, when I go on normal cranks I still pedal pretty much PC style with 360degrees of force application. I think they can definitely help you, especially if you are a weaker running or one that is injury prone. I’m kind of prone to get shin splints and what’s interesting it was those muscles that are giving me trouble with shin splints that were the limiters when I first started using PCs.
Disclosure: I do have a pair of PC for sale in the classifieds section but I still very much believe in them. I think that after 2 years of riding PC you are adapted enough that you keep that style of riding.You might need an occasional one leg drill without them, but you couldn’t use the one leg drill to get the same benefits as riding with PCs. That said, I think because it’s difficult to ride PC at first most people don’t ride enough with them and as a result never adapt and get the benefits from their use.
Thinking about investing in a pair, do they work?
Yes, without a doubt, powercranks do exactly what they are designed to do.
However, I think you really want to know if they make you a better cyclist or runner. NO. Most certainly not. When you use them it is certainly possible to become better at cycling and/or running. But there is absolutely no evidence that supports claims that using powercranks is the cause of the effect. (Well no real valid and reliably scientific evidence has been presented).
In addition, this garbage that powercranks are humbling etc when people start using them. Of course they are humbling - because no-one pedals with that motion prior to using them. But that doesn’t mean we are supposed to be pedalling like that. It is utter nonsense sprouted about with the intention of trying to make the link between the humbling experience somehow meaning you prior technique was poor.
It’s akin to me getting on a pair of snow skis and finding that I can’t turn, parallely ski etc even though I’ve never skiid before in my life and claiming it’s a humbling experience. Of course it’s a humbling experience, I’ve never done it before. It doesn’t mean my running or pedalling technique is in for an overhall because I can’t ski.
I’m getting quite sick and tired of this Frank Day not being able to answer the critics with valid and reliable scientific research to support his outlandish claims.
I honestly think he should be banned from posting about his cranks until such time arises as it’s been nearly a decade of this nonsense and nothings changed. He posts pathetic testimonials from people that would improve if they did anything at all, and he can’t understand research and the scientific process.
Yet others CAN post 100% unqualified data provided by the OEM of an item and profess they “speediness” of their item in perfect - no where near real world environments? IMO, Zipp and only Zipp provides information on items true to nature in real world"esc" tests. The rest is smoke and mirrors and making sure you provide the proper science to the proper well thought out question.
While Franks 40% power improvements are bogus. No other way about that, but I did bring my 400m running interval times from the 1:20s to the 1:10-11 without any change in training other than the addition of PC use on my rides. I really think they help your run alot and I also noticed an improvement in Sprint Max Power within just a few rides. I did adapt fairly quickly it just took a while to build PC endurance.
Here’s my PC experience.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=765726;search_string=powercranks%20max;#765726
awesome…very well said and reasoned. I agree 100%.
but I did bring my 400m running interval times from the 1:20s to the 1:10-11 without any change in training other than the addition of PC use on my rides.
haha, this is the sort of nonsense I’m talking about.
Why should only changes in training bring about improvement - how do you know that you would not have improved anyway just by doing the same training over and over without the addition of adding PC’s. You don’t and you can’t. That is why there is a perfectly sensible process used for determining whether such “inventions” work or not.
It’s called the scientific method. And after a decade and many attempts - still no evidence produced by anyone following the scientific method…
waiting, waiting, waiting, see you in a decade from now, when there will be no doubt thousands of testimonials but still no evidence…
the improvements happened too quickly. Look at my thread from the first rides with PC. My sprint power went up pretty quickly and I was a fast adapter, it just took me a while for the PC endurance as some muscles were aerobically under trained.
The running improvements came again fast for me after I started on PC again after an extended break. Back then I wasn’t as adapted to them as now so I lost alot when not riding them. The fact that in both instances I didn’t change many other variables but improved soon after riding PC made me take an educated guess that its because of them that I improved. Keep in mind though that if you aren’t a fast adapter it probably takes longer.
"It’s called the scientific method. And after a decade and many attempts - still no evidence produced by anyone following the scientific method… "
I know several that own PCs and I must say that out of them I am the only one that rode them pretty much exclusively and with that I got the benefits. I think not many are consistent enough to get the PC benefits, especially those that are slow at adapting the PC style of riding.
The same can be said about a P3C with out the proper wind tunnel, wind speed, tester, and on and on and on and on…yet only Jackmott seems hell bent on aero testing everything and anything - and yet…no ground breaking world records in Tri, or cycling for that matter…despite all the aero mumbo jumbo snake oil out there.
As a matter of fact that MOP times are MUCH slower than they were ten years ago…odd the way “science” works.
Well, if your 400 times go back to the 1:20s you may be on to something.
but I did bring my 400m running interval times from the 1:20s to the 1:10-11 without any change in training other than the addition of PC use on my rides.
haha, this is the sort of nonsense I’m talking about.
Why should only changes in training bring about improvement - how do you know that you would not have improved anyway just by doing the same training over and over without the addition of adding PC’s. You don’t and you can’t. That is why there is a perfectly sensible process used for determining whether such “inventions” work or not.
It’s called the scientific method. And after a decade and many attempts - still no evidence produced by anyone following the scientific method…
waiting, waiting, waiting, see you in a decade from now, when there will be no doubt thousands of testimonials but still no evidence…
You seem to be missing the fact that it is not possible for an individual to do a scientific test on anything. The best they can do is provide their experience and their opinions. Why do you call this nonsense. It is what happens with pretty much every product out there. Show me a single scientific test about using a PM in training. Or this supplement, or that supplement. Or, almost anything else. At least there are some “scientific studies” on PC’s, even though they are inadequate to prove or disprove the “claims”.
Why are you trying to hold PC’s and those who report their experiences to a different standard?
are they worth the money?
They may be great , but they are definitely not worth $1000. In NZ even as fulltime medical Dr like Frank it would take 2 weeks to save that sort of cash.
Unless you are already in the top few in your local category 1 cycle races I wouldn’t bother spending that sort of dosh. You will get much bigger gains by taking the 2 weeks off work and cycling 700+km per week.
People are just inventing things like this all the time for the lazy people who want the gains without doing the work. I have even seen people from the USA trying to sell electrical stimulation of your muscles while sleeping as a way to improve and make massive gains. You can sell anything to a bunch of suckers and the world is becoming very unpractical or wasteful one could say.
I believe they could improve technique and am sure the same thing could be made and sold for under $100usd per unit. Someone is making too much profit along the way on this one(either that or it needs redesign).
are they worth the money?
People are just inventing things like this all the time for the lazy people who want the gains without doing the work.
www.TriathlonShots.com
LOL. Ask any PC’er if they felt like they got faster without doing the work. PC’s require more work. That is Tigermilk’s analysis as to why they work. I think they do more than that but they certainly are not the “lazy peoples” way to speed.
Why are you trying to hold PC’s and those who report their experiences to a different standard?
I’m not. I’m holding them to the same standard. Where have you seen me state otherwise on other products you mentioned?
Take your power meter example. No-one claims that powermeters make you faster. They claim that they can better train at the intensities they want to train at and that makes them faster - i.e. get more out of their training. It is well known you can do the exact same training without a power meter measuring.
You really do yourself great diservice by posting rubbish on this forum. Even supporters of your product keep telling you this, but you keep posting rubbish posts. You’d be best off letting the product speak for itself. If it is any good it would do so.
Not necessarily. Because even riding regular cranks I’m riding PC style and even after taking 6months off from riding PC, within a couple rides I could go on 4hrs rides again without problem. I think the benefit carries over to regular cranks once fully adapted.
Why are you trying to hold PC’s and those who report their experiences to a different standard?
I’m not. I’m holding them to the same standard. Where have you seen me state otherwise on other products you mentioned?
Take your power meter example. No-one claims that powermeters make you faster. They claim that they can better train at the intensities they want to train at and that makes them faster - i.e. get more out of their training. It is well known you can do the exact same training without a power meter measuring.
Please provide a single source of scientific evidence to support the above highlighted statement.
Why are you trying to hold PC’s and those who report their experiences to a different standard?
I’m not. I’m holding them to the same standard. Where have you seen me state otherwise on other products you mentioned?
Take your power meter example. No-one claims that powermeters make you faster. They claim that they can better train at the intensities they want to train at and that makes them faster - i.e. get more out of their training. It is well known you can do the exact same training without a power meter measuring.
Please provide a single source of scientific evidence to support the above highlighted statement.
Are you that stupid? Really? IS that a real question?
"Unless you are already in the top few in your local category 1 cycle races I wouldn’t bother spending that sort of dosh. You will get much bigger gains by taking the 2 weeks off work and cycling 700+km per week. "
Agree that a 700km cycling week would do many people good, more so than PC IMO. But if you do your regular training and incorporate PC they can help you.
"I believe they could improve technique and am sure the same thing could be made and sold for under $100usd per unit. Someone is making too much profit along the way on this one(either that or it needs redesign). "
I would be careful with that. I don’t think he’s making as much money off them as you think he is. You can’t compare mass production to (relatively) low volume production of PowerCranks. Plus there are lots of one time costs and the regular cost of doing business. Nothing wrong with making a bit of money along the way for those that invent.
“People are just inventing things like this all the time for the lazy people who want the gains without doing the work.”
Yeah, get on PC and see if it’s a smooth ride at first for the lazy ones…That’s funny!