Post Kona thoughts

there have been many discussions here about the pro’s performances in Kona in recent years. Maybe no one will care, but I was thinking about a lot of this heading into this years race and ended up putting my thoughts down to paper (or bits). I’ve ended up changing my position from working through all this. I’d love to hear any comments.

Is winning enough?
For the past several years, I have derided the men’s winning times at Ironman Hawaii as being short of the athlete’s best efforts. My qualifications for doing so are that I have been to Hawaii several times on vacation (though never to the Big Island), and that I have done a triathlon before (though never an Ironman). With my credentials firmly in hand, I have suggested that, the men primarily, are sitting in on the bike and then running to victory on relatively fresh legs. I contrast this with my own deep study of the early years of triathlon, mostly done when I was in High School watching Wide World of Sports coverage of Dave Scott and Mark Allen. My argument has been that the early greats were more interested in testing their personal limits and discovering what Triathlon really was, and that the current champions are far less concerned with this, than with winning the race and cashing in the paycheck.

As an age-group triathlete, I’m in no danger of winning a race outright, so my focus is always on self-improvement. “To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.” (Steve Prefontaine) If that’s true for me with my average gifting than how much more is being sacrificed by those who are truly gifted? As a culture, giving your best is what we expect and demand from our hero’s. Like it or not, in the sport of triathlon, winning the Ironman Hawaii is supposed to make you a hero. However, as a group, triathletes have not been treating Tim DeBoom as a hero. Certainly there was some patriotic hero-ness to his post 9/11 win, but all in all, the majority of the tri-community has seemingly yawned at Tim’s wins. This has only affirmed my belief that winning isn’t enough. Like other sports we should be seeing continual improvement and broken records.

As the 2003 race approached I began questioning this and wondering what would be good enough for me, come race day. As it turns out, my expectations weren’t very reaistic.

Everybody can’t be a legend
The NBC hype machine certainly doesn’t help. The overdramatic presentation of most anything coming from NBC Sports only fuels our expectations of modern athletes. Everybody is the next-Somebody. How many next-Michael Jordan’s has the media anointed in the NBA to date? The reality is that it may be quite some time before someone else in the NBA exhibits the kind of all around skill that MJ did. Cycling is no different. Even if Lance successfully wins his 6th title, Eddy Merckx will still continue to be regarded as the finest cyclist ever. Merckx is a legend. Only the history books should determine if someone else can match or beat him. Lance, or anyone else, should not feel obligated to obtain legend status, or compete with a ghost. All we should request, in order to gain our adoration, and more importantly our time and money (spent watching the sport, and on the sponsors wares) is to see the best that the pro’s have to give. We saw that from both Lance and Jan on Alpe d’Huez in 2001, and we saw a different side of that in 2003 when Lance may not have shown his physical best ever, but he did show us his mental best.

The quick succession from Bernhard Hinault to Miguel Indurain to Lance Armstrong, may be falsely fueling our belief that we should be pouring out the legends similarly in triathlon. We must fight false expectations set by the sports media in an attempt to define everything at an epic level. As athletes and competitors we should be content that some find our avocation worthy of full-time devotion, and that for the gifted, there are sponsors willing to foot the bill to see them deliver their best. When they deliver we should celebrate their accomplishments without measuring them against the legends of the past.

The pool is only so deep
Ignoring the race in Kona, any given Ironman generally has 3 or less actual title contenders. Major races in the sports that make up triathlon, swimming, biking and running, would typically have much deeper fields than that. The lack of monetary payout to the winners makes triathlon a fringe event. Even if we were to somehow significantly increase the pay out, the time commitment involved to win in long course triathlon would still leave many other sports a more attractive target for the monetarily motivated endurance athlete. This gives us a shallow pool to pull from in our search for future legends. It also means we are less likely to see steady continual improvements and records as we see in other sports.

Kona vs. other premiere races
Trying to pick a suitable race from another sport to compare to Ironman Hawaii is not very easy. Other endurance sports do not have a self-proclaimed world championship. Cycling has the Tour de France, but its focus on strategy and collection of 20 individual stage races tied together makes a tough comparison. Running has the Chicago and London marathons, but the truth is, each of these has become a defacto meeting of the worlds best based on the potential for setting a world record (flat course, with favorable weather). Swimming has the Olympics, but the distances involved don’t lend them to be easily compared to the Ironman.

Kona stands on it’s own. Similar to the spirit of the first Ironman on Oahu, it is more about what we are able to endure, than trying to setup a course suitable for comparing our progress from year to year. In this sense, Kona is more similar to an adventure race. No one would attempt to compare the times from 2 consecutive Eco-Challenges in order to determine who was the better team. Perhaps we would be better off approaching the variable weather at Kona in a similar fashion.

Drafting
As a casual observer who has read accounts of past races, it would appear that the enforcement of the drafting rules has been sporadic through the years. Reports from the 1995 races suggest that Mark Allen actually thanked riders he drafted on at the awards banquet for helping him win. Rather than look down on Mark for an act we might currently deem as unfair, we should simply accept that it was what it was. If this is in fact the way things were a few years ago, it makes comparison from year to year a bit more difficult, if not impossible.

For the good of the sport as we know it, I the WTC, as well as USAT and the other sanctioning boards, must continue to improve the no-drafting enforcement. The current three minute stand down doesn’t seem like much of a penalty. A ten minute stand down for the first infraction would have a greater deterrent effect, and lead to less riders pushing the limits of the drafting rules.

The juice
We would be foolish to assume that triathlon is somehow exempt from doping. As a sport we seem far less interested in pursuing dopers than cycling has in the past few years. Given the number of pro’s who train with European pro cyclists, and the prevalence of performance enhancing drugs in the pro peloton, we should only assume that a statistically relevant number of pro triathletes are on the juice. The likelihood of past Kona winners being juiced up increases the difficulty in comparing current times with past times.

Winning by doping has no honor, but the blame should not be on the doping athletes (whoever they may be) alone. The referee’s, race directors and sanctioning boards who ignore strict enforcement are also to blame. They need to clean up our sport before we suffer the same fate professional cycling has. Sure, it won’t be cheap to seriously increase the amount of testing we do, but it will be even more expensive to ignore it until it blows up in our face. The tests should be as comprehensive as possible, and as the THG scandal from the 2003 Track & Field World Championship shows, we should consider going back and re-testing old samples as new tests become available. Testing old samples should not be done to punish those from the past who got away with it, but to create an environment where the risk of getting caught both now and in the future is just too great. It would be less damaging to the sport to be open and honest, then to sweep things under the rug.

Prime’s and bonus’
Many of the current arguments about the pro men revolve around them “sitting-in” on the bike. This likely stems from a fear that long course racing could go the same path as ITU style racing as well as our desire for a hero to break from the pack and win the race on his or her own terms.

While we can certainly continue to hope for someone to bring long course racing to a whole new level, that shouldn’t belittle the work being done now at the present level. There are enough people in Kona each year hungry enough for the win, that if they thought they could win by breaking away on the bike, they would do it. Not only does it belittle the winner to suggest that they’re sitting in on the bike, but it belittles the entire field, by saying that they never had the guts to do anything more than simply watch the winner win. With all the ego involved in being a top athlete in any sport, that seems highly unlikely.

More likely the problem is that the payout in Hawaii has gotten to be large enough that there is too much at stake to risk loosing it in the hopes of setting a course record. What if, as is common in running, the payout were doubled (or more) if you set a course record? Would this change the way the pro’s race? Would they lay more on the line? Maybe yes, maybe no. Given the course record, and the winning times since 1997, Lloyds of London would probably give the WTC a pretty cheap insurance policy in order to add a $500,000 bonus for a new course record. It seems likely that we’d see a bit more daring racing with that much money on the line.

In addition, a return of the Swim and Bike prime’s would help, too. Certainly the payoff would be decent for the sponsors. You can hear the NBC announcer saying “Jan Sibberson wins the Speedo fastest swim of the day, for the third year in a row”. Complete with Speedo graphics on the screen and perhaps an additional trophy at the end of the day. Same thing on the bike and the run. Make the payout something decent like $50,000, and you’d get some ringers in on the day to try to walk off with the booty. We’d need to require that they finish the entire event in order to collect the prize money. With a small collection of Olympic swimmers, European domestique’s, and Kenyan marathoners, we’d see the status quo of the race mixed up a bit.

A little something for everybody
Our sport is great. We certainly aren’t in a state of crisis. But the love we have for it makes us want it to be even more successful. To achieve that we need to give a little more as outlined above.

Pro’s
• Give us the best that you’ve got. We’re paying your bills through our race fee’s, and support of your sponsors. Like it or not it’s a show, and we are watching to be impressed and inspired.

Fan’s
• Realize that legendary greatness is something likely only determined from hindsight. In the meantime we should celebrate the winners when they win.
• Keep in mind that Kona was not designed as a WR setting course. It is highly variable and likely not suitable for year to year comparison.

WTC
• Enforce drafting with complete vigor and consider increasing the penalty
• Enforce drug testing with equal vigor and consider retesting past results
• Establish a course record bonus
• Establish prime’s for the best time in each discipline by a finisher

Very well put. Todays pros seem less intent on going fast, and more intent on winning.

-I want speed.

“Todays pros seem less intent on going fast, and more intent on winning.”

Why can’t we just skip the political correctness and admit it - Allen, Scott and LVL are faster than DeBoom or Reid.

LVL was twice, but… did he draft? did he juice? he’s still racing and hasn’t been able to put it together since then. his fragility keeps him from being great. to be great you have to be durable enough to do the training required.

do you really think that if he’d been in kona the last 3 years that he’d have won? then why wasn’t he in kona?

Reid’s 2 wins are 8:21 & 8:22, LVL’s are 8:04 (course record which seems highly suspicious to me given the timeframe and how much he shattered the previous record) and 8:17. 8:17 isn’t that far from 8:21.

I’ll go with my article and say that we have to support that the best man won on the day and honor his accomplishment.

“Todays pros seem less intent on going fast, and more intent on winning.”

Winning is the objective, so while the leader of the race may simply be going hard enough to preserve his/her lead, why is it we presume that everyone else is not going as fast as they can in order to become the winner?

Haim

“Why is it that we presume that everyone else is not going as fast as they can in order to become the winner?”

By the fact that they finish, smile, and hug. I’d rather see two people (like Luc and Macca this year) chase each other and collapse on the finish line than to see who ever it was that went 1-2 at Escape from Alcetraz, finish and wave, and then smile hug and talk about how hard it was. I’m not really saddistic, I just see one group that gave it their all, and one group that appears to be a little less triathleteish. Just my thoughts.

"but… "

You got proof LVL did any of these things? And what if…yadaydayda.

For me at least, the times speak for themselves. As I said previously why won’t some of you guys just admit that DeBoom, Reid etc. are not (and most likely never will be) as fast as Scott, Allen, LVL were.

http://www.terra.es/personal/jlpenag/tri_iron1.htm

my intention with thinking this through and posting this was to try to move beyond the deboom vs the legends article (if you do a search you’ll see I’ve always been on your side in the past). I find LVL’s 8:04 as suspicious as I find Marco Pantani’s Alpe de’ Huez record. Do I have proof of either, nope.

ultimately it doesn’t really matter if timmy is better than mark or the scott’s. it’s a different time and a different race. If that’s the discussion just reply to one of the old threads. Is Lance better than Merckx? does it matter? does it belittle lance’s accomplishments that Eddie was arguably a more well rounded cyclist? or maybe the competition just wasn’t as good in eddie’s day. we’ll never know. Who’s better at b-ball, Michael Jordan or Bill Walton? Does it really matter?

Now, the question of if the pro’s are really just racing to win seems far more actionable. That’s why I propose that we shake that up some with the Prime’s and course record bonus. Without that (or other remedy), why would anyone risk a 10 minute lead in the final half of the run?

“Todays pros seem less intent on going fast, and more intent on winning.”

I totally agree!! People may not like the fact that we say they are sitting in on the bike, but they are. When 12 people ride 112 miles together, that is sitting in. We look at the ironman as a 1 day endurance events that brings out the rawness and fortitude of our soul. We want to see people push until their hearts leak out of their lungs. I saw that in the woman’s race with the battle for 1-5, but the men’s race was the usual blah blah blah fastest marathon wins. Bring on someone with more heart than brains who is willing to push their body to a level others are scared to take a glimpse of.

FIRELUV

``It’s not enough that we win; everyone else must lose." -Genghis Khan

Brad-
First: You presented some well thought out questions.
Second, you must have a lot of free time.

There are considerations to racing and winning Kona that people can’t know about until they’re at that level, or spend a lot of time with those who are.
Times are very hard to compare, LVL’s 8:04 might have only been 8:25 in a really bad year. And unless you’ve raced Kona in a bad year, you’ll never fully appreciate that.

The triathlon pubicity/myth-making machine is a very tight and incestous bunch. The ones who make the heroes, the editors, publishers, agents and tri-business types, are often like an Arkansas guy’s wife, aunt, and former step-mom: The same person. Some of the “Legends” they helped create are really, truly screwed up individuals you wouldn’t want living next door to you, especially if you had impressionable kids. But you read the crap in the magazine and wonder during quiet times why these magnificent individuals have been cheated from their Nobel prizes.

DeBoom, for reasons I won’t go into, is not being promoted by “People Who Matter”, even though, or maybe because, he’s an All-American boy from the Heartland, and a decent guy. He won the friggin race by 15 minutes a few years ago, to the sound of very loud snores. He has a jersey with fewer sponsor logos than some second tier age-groupers, but some looky-lou’s want him to lay it all on the line in Kona, from the gun, because he “owes” it to them.
My ass.
He owes it to his wife and family to do what’s necessary to make the 100k, and try not to take the WTC’s assine 70k pay cut that comes with the honor of being second best Ironman in the known universe. As the philosopher Tex Jacobs once stated, finacially this sport is like a box full of rats fighting over one Cheeto. The pros aren’t the ones getting rich off the age-groupers, that would be the race owners and tri-biz guys.

Being a hero rarely funds a retirement account. I’m sure Tim and Peter don’t want to be teaching spin classes at age 50.

And of course the WTC needs to take a serious stand on drafting and doping, but let’s be real: It eats into the profit. It’ll take a pro going full-tilt blood-sludge vapor-locking on Alii Dr. (and DOA, not staggering on in to the finish) in front of an NBC camera, to get their attention.
But I’m 100% with you on the course record bonuses and primes, it would spice the show up, anybody who breaks 8hours on that course deserves at least 500k.

But I would add the exception that the prime winner would have to finish in the top 15/25/50 or so to get the loot. It might not be very exciting to have a skinny African blast past Bill Bell on his way to a 2:25 run split and a 15 hour finish. (I seem to remember a 2:14 marathoner 8 or 10 years ago planning his 2:30 split. 4hrs+, baby. Not as easy as it looks).

Todays pros definitely are more concerned about the win than the speed. How many times was Dave Scott paid $100 000 for his first place prize purse? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Hawaii is like the Olympic games, no one runs for world records at the Olympics since the gold is what is important. I remember the world track and field championships in 1983 when Steve Cram won the 1500m final in 3:43 (a time which I’ve seen high school kids run). Was he less of an athlete because he was way off the world record, or just a masterful tactician who timed his kick perfectly and beat all the top dogs in the sport? For fast times, the pros will go to other venues where they have a lot less to lose by redlining from the gun to the finish line.

I’m sick of hearing this crap about LVL’s 8:04 in 1996, and how it is so far better than anything else that he MUST have been on something… blah blah blah…

No one ever seems to remember Hellriegal’s 8:06 or Welch’s Hawaii PB of 8:17 (?) for 3rd. It was simply a good day, as far a Hawaii is concerned. Hellriegal improved by 20-odd minutes. And Van Lierde was simply on top of his game back then.

I think the group is catching on to the concept of being a pro. The goal is to win as much money over the longest period of time possible. Other sports have been doing this for years. Look at running for example. The Africans run to win and recover so they can win more. They need the money to help the family more than most folks and one big win sets mom and pop up for life.
I think todays pros are smart to race to win. Ironman is a hard enough event and like the marathon the field cannot get faster every year. I think we are getting pretty close to as fast as we will see for a long time, so the record isn’t as important as it once was, Back when the big 4 were pounding it out Triathlon was a new sport, now it is a wise sport. G

Whenever the subject of sporting heroes and legends come up, I think of three athletes who had their shot at legend status:

  1. Joe DiMaggio. On the last day of the season, going into a double header, he was batting like .401 (for non-baseball fans, nobody bats over .400 for a season). His manager offered to let him sit out the games to be safe; Joe played both games, went 6 for 8, and ended at .406. Status: legend.

  2. Mark Spitz. Going into his last event of the 1972 Olympics, he had 6 gold medals and 6 world records. He had a choice: miss gold in the seventh event (400Medley relay, where anything can go wrong), and his performance would be “tarnished” (6 gold, one silver. Eh.). He swam, and set another world record. Status: legend.

  3. Carl Lewis. In the 1984 Olympics, before the “home crowd” in Los Angeles, Carl was going for Jesse Owens’ (a real hero) record of 4 gold medals in a single Games. In the long jump, he qualified for the final on either his first or second jump, with a distance that most likely would not be equaled. He had a choice: try and go for Bob Beamon’s legendary 8.90m world record, or save his energy for whatever his next event was. He took no more jumps that day. Status: not legend.

Ken Lehner

Small point of clarification… the .400+ hitter was Ted Williams, not Joe Dimaggio.

Sorry to be anal… but let’s not give the Yankees anything more than they deserve.

Is winning enough?
…My argument has been that the early greats were more interested in testing their personal limits and discovering what Triathlon really was…
Drafting
…Reports from the 1995 races suggest that Mark Allen actually thanked riders he drafted on at the awards banquet for helping him win…

You’re contradicting yourself.

Bobo- Great thread/thoughts…and o.k., I’ll bite- 1) What are some of the reasons DeBoom is not being promoted by “People Who Matter”? I have wondered this myself, and would appreciate any/all comments you would be willing to share.

2)“Some of the ‘Legends’ they helped create are really, truly screwed up individuals you wouldn’t want living next door of you, especially if you had impressionable kids.” Again, I bite…pretty interesting opinion…any more comments?

Scott, Allen, Paula and a host of other tri-athletes are on my list of heroes. I think of them as heroes not because they won or were fast but because they were first and because they did incredible things on equipment, training, strategy, and diets that are nowhere as sophisticated as they are today.

I would consider it sacrilegious to even consider that they used drugs to enhance their performance, but who knows? Maybe Merckx did but I don’t ever want to know - he’s on my list too.

I also can’t be naive and think that they were more interested in testing their personal limits and discovering what Triathlon really than with winning. These athletes are competitive winners, motivated champions, driven by a need. They were there to win at any cost and their performances reflect that.

Regarding Doping: There is no definitive proof anyone was doping in Tri… (unless you’re a pro reading this and saw your roommate shoot-up through that secret hole in the wetsuit.)

However there is a strong correlation between T&F and Tri. In '95 & '96 there was continual rewriting of records in the 3000/5000/10000 meter events, most of those guys fell off the back of the apple truck in the Rift valley and are now running(relatively) very slow, e.g. Daniel Komen, Noah Ngeny.

It was around this point that the 8hr mark was threatened and then demolished. Since then times have come back down to earth, don’t kid yourselves, 8.25 vs. 7.50 is an eternity in Tri. And probably not a fluke because someone was “on”…

It, is of course, opinion and conjecture; that’s the beauty of the internet and life: read, digest and believe what you will.

Man, that was really stupid of me. Thanks for reminding me.

Ken “hiding in shame” Lehner