Polarized training (1)

Triathlon Forum
1

Hi everyone !
I wanted give more structure to my training this season. I did a good base building on the trainer with a british cycling training plan (lot of sweetspot).

The problem is that I ended up burnt. Some weeks it was really hard to keep going with one long ride (nordic skiing in winter) and 2 sweetspot or threshold sessions+swim/run.

I feel stronger on the bike, but I think I’m slower running and, most important, I feel exhausted and I cannot maintain average power/pace, running and cycling.

So, I conclude that 2 sweetspot a Week+swim intervals, +run training (mostly slowly because I cannot do fast stuff…), is a lot for me.

I read a lot about polarized training, and I think maybe it’s the solution.

Anyone have an opinion about this kind of training for a 70.3 in september ? (olympic distances during summer).

Base phase, with 12h/Week, 1 intense session/Week/sport (about 20’ of high intensity, a litlle bit above threshold 90% max HR or 10km pace). With 20’ of intense stuff, I will do 10% of high intensity per Week, 90% easy.

Build phase for the last 8 to 10 weeks (Always 10-15h/wk)w, with 80% (around 10h) easy stuff, and about 2h with specific HIM intervals (around sweetspot, in the Z2 polarized).

Typical Week will be 2-3 swim, , 3-4 bike (1 long ride 3h+), 3-4 run (1long run 1h30).

Thank you !!
Ivan

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If you are burnt out, first thing to do is rest. Take a few days off completely, and then cut out the hard stuff and keep to <70% FTP for awhile. And when you feel mentally and physically fresh again (both!), introduce some hard efforts. Not too much. Once a week. I suspect you’d get more from intense (VO2+) intervals at least for awhile. You should definitely do that at some point. Above all make sure that when you are going easy, **you are really going easy! **

3

Thanks for the answer.
Yes, I know I need some rest. I’ll spent the two coming weeks with easy stuff.
Then, I’ll start introducing polarized training, with the Schedule I mentioned earlier, with about 20-30’ of high intensity (just above threshold) per discipline.

THen, about 10 weeks before the 70.3 I have scheduled in september, I’ll start specific HIM intervals.

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THen, about 10 weeks before the 70.3 I have scheduled in september, I’ll start specific HIM intervals.

A polarized intensity distribution would be 1 high intensity workout for every 4 low intensity one.

Here high intensity means holding intensity well above threshold, typically as near maximal intervals of 15s > t < 12 mins long with short periods of recovery 15s > r < 2 mins.

Mark

5

What I wanted to do was:

Base period, with 20% of the session in high intensity zone. Seiler recomends spending this time at around 90-95%max HR, its just above threshold, not all out. I thought 6-12min intervals with 90sec-2min rest (ex 4*8min/2min)

Then, a build period, with a less polarized training and more time spent between thresholds at around 70.3 pace.

Maybe am I wrong ?

Thanks !

6

What I wanted to do was:

Base period, with 20% of the session in high intensity zone. Seiler recomends spending this time at around 90-95%max HR, its just above threshold, not all out. I thought 6-12min intervals with 90sec-2min rest (ex 4*8min/2min)

Then, a build period, with a less polarized training and more time spent between thresholds at around 70.3 pace.

Maybe am I wrong ?

Thanks !

Why mix methodologies? What’s your reasoning for wanting to first do polarized and then do sweet spot?

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I Don’t think it’s mix methodologies.
I thought specificity is important.

So, if I start building fitness with the polarized approach (more than polarized, its 80/20 distribution, with z4 work intervals because it seems to be the most beneficial for general fitness) and then I do a little block of specific pace just to know what will be race pace it seems logical no ?

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its 80/20 distribution, with z4 work intervals

Polarised Intensity Distributions avoid the middle ground around Threshold (your z4 work).
There is of course some leeway to incorporate threshold work if your sport demands it, to the specificity principle (but that’s a big no for HIM).

Mark

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If you have time, listen to this, I think its quite good.
https://scientifictriathlon.com/tts177/

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Ok… In the last scientific triathlon interview with Seiler (main researcher about polarized training), it is said that the most effective way of doing intervals seems to be accumulating 30-40min of work at around 90%, wich is not threshold, but just above threshold.

In the matt fitzgeral 80/20 calculator, the zone to avoid is between 1st and 2nd threshold, not just above threshold.

Maybe am I wrong and it will be better to do more intense work.

Edit: in your link, they say "We’ve found that for HIIT training sessions, we tend to see very good results and a sustainable level of stress by being at the low end of zone 3, or in a 5-zone model in zone 4, instead of zone 5. "

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The numbers repeated in that link: ~90% of time, 4:1 sessions at lower intensity. When setting zones: zone 1 is < LT1 and zone 3 is > LT2.

At 18-25 mins on that pod he elaborates on the Z2/Z3 mix, for triathlon and ironman he sees evidence that pyramidal is applied in elite athletes, up to 10/10 for Z2 and Z3. When discussing the stress response from Z2 and Z3 he goes on to distinguish in terms of time spent at Z2 vs Z3 and working at the transition from Z2 to Z3 so I guess you would call that “upper z4 work”, with 30-40mins of time accumulated.

Mark

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Yes, in the scientific triathlon articles, he says working between z2-z3 or just at low z3 is the most benefic for “building the engine”.

So, what do you think about doing the base “building the engine” in this zone, and then doing a more specific 70.3 work ?
It will be a “reverse periodization” no ?

If you think it’s not a good idea, what would you do instead ? I know that for 3 swim, 3 bike, 3 run, it"s too much if I do 2 sweetspot bike intervals and 1 threshold run.

Thanks !

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I’m way out of my depth advising on periodizing* a HIM plan !
I think that’s one for a coach :slight_smile:

Mark

  • there isn’t much in the literature to suggest any benefits of periodization outside of tapering prior to a race.
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…30-40min of work at around 90%, wich is not threshold, but just above threshold… Maybe am I wrong and it will be better to do more intense work.

“Going hard” should be various intervals that are over FTP. Some longer, some shorter like Mark mentioned. Not a lot of time. I wouldn’t spend more than 10-15% of your weekly hours doing that on average, particularly since you got burnt out earlier.

The other 90% of the time ride at ~70% FTP. Not harder. Stay out of sweetspot. It isn’t that sweetspot is evil, but you’ve done that and it didn’t work or isn’t any longer. You can do a couple race pace and duration rides leading up to the race so you know what it feels like.

Do a similar program for running and swimming.

HR is pretty well useless for pacing interval intensity. Is that all you have?

15

Thanks for the answer.

I use pace for running (37min30/10k, I estimate my threshold at around 3’55/km, hard training could be 32k at 3’45-50/k, or 6800m at 3’40-45/k).

For the bike, yes I only have HR monitor. Better if I could have a powermeter but I Don’t.

I think i’ll stick with that:
2-3 swims
3 bike
3 run
A total of around 12h per Week, with 20min (10% of Weekly volume) of z3 work per discipline, varying the intervals (6x3min, 4x5min, 2x10min, 10x2min, 20min steady….).

With this I think I’ll be ready for oly, and not burnt. If doing 70.3, I’ll add 6-8 weeks of specific pace intervals to know what it is

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Not a lot of time. I wouldn’t spend more than 10-15% of your weekly hours doing that on average, particularly since you got burnt out earlier…

I wouldn’t be surprised if that actual time at intensity was <10% of their total training time.

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20min (10% of Weekly volume) of z3 work per discipline, varying the intervals (6x3min, 4x5min, 2x10min, 10x2min, 20min steady….).

If z3 is >FTP that sounds like a decent approach. It may be beneficial to sometimes increase interval volumes for a couple weeks if you feel good, then don’t do any the 3rd week. Pay attention to your body. Don’t overdo it. Figure out what 70% of FTP is in HR, and stay below that on easy days.

If all you have is HR I’d advise doing intervals on feel and checking the pace after the fact to calibrate your perception.

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Thank you very much
I think it’s not overcomplicated and will allow me some progress.
Great I can do it by feel and then check HR/Pace.

It seems that “the maximal constant speed for each intervals”, is a good option (maximal speed for the session, the last intervals have to be as quick as the first).
My run threshold is around 3’50-3’55/km. I’ll try to do my run intervals between 3’40-3’45 (around 10k speed)

Now, go to training !

19

Sounds pretty similar to what I recommend.

2 to 3 weeks (3 weeks max during build) where each week has at least 1 intense workout per discipline.
I try and line up the intense bike and run on the same day - one in AM and one at lunch or PM. Following day SUPER light.

1 week transition between 95% easy work.

Build
Transition
Race Prep
Taper
etc…

Total build periods, transition, race prep time, etc depends on your race target and how long your training block will be.

20

Thanks you !!
I looked at the 70.3 sample plans you put in you website.
Yes, it seems similar, I’ll stick with the schedule I wrote, I think with the winter/spring “burnout” it’s not a good time to follow a strict scheme.

Thanks a lot