Hi Guys and girls,
I’m new here (So hello to you all) and came across this site/forum whilst trying to fathom out what the hell I just bought…
The story goes; I bought a bike from an internet site that has a page dedicated to buying and selling bikes and bike stuff. I paid the seller via PayPal ( actually his request) and picked the bike up from him at a meeting point half way between us. However when I picked it up he said he had no paper work, instruction manuals, installation manuals or warranty paperwork. He said he had bought the parts from e-bay and did nt have the papers for the things he bought new ( He said he had built the bike himself).
Anyway on the drive home I was mulling it over in my mind and decided to take a look at verifying serial numbers etc, starting from the Zipp wheels and the Argon 18 frame.
Turns out the Zipps are fake… the rims were missing the Z emboss. So pretty sure they were fake.
Anyway, then I started looking for an engraved serial number on the frame, difficult due to the previous owners respray. I looked online and have come to the conclusion it is not an ARGON 18 E118 Next as all the decals on it say. So what is it? Anyone got any ideas please?
Definitely NOT an Argon E-118. None of their annual iterations of the frame had that shape at the down tube, head tube, top tube junction area. Very close, otherwise. The stem looks a little different than any that I can see as well. I’d say Chinese knockoff frame. Looks like an E-118 and a Specialized Shiv mashup. Checked every Chinese knockoff site that I know of and don’t see any exact matches there. No idea what animal this is.
The area behind the head tube doesn’t look like a typical E118 frame. The legit frames have a more square look to the junction between the head tube, top tube, and down tube. The seat post also looks different from a genuine E118 frame, particularly around the unique circular clamp that Argon has. The bottom of the fork also looks different.
Not all Zipps have a logo embossed into the carbon. Alternatively, even fake ones can have the Zipp logo moulded into the carbon. Generally (but not always) authentic zipps will also have zipp hubs. Fake Zipps will usually have some random (like novatech) branded hub.
Don’t take a lack of paperwork as a sign that the frame is fake. It’s pretty common to ‘not’ have instruction manuals, warranty papers (etc.).
I’ve also looked for some generic TT frames. The FM069 is close to the frame that you have in your picture, but it has noticeable differences in the carbon (like right around the seat tube / top tube area, and where the seat stays join the seat tube). I can’t quickly find a generic frame that exactly matches what you have pictured.
Like the other poster mentioned, post more pics of the frame and wheels
Assuming you didn’t, you should be covered by paypal. Let the seller know right away that you’ve confirmed with Argon 18 that the frame is fake, and that you’d like a refund. Open a dispute with paypal, and don’t close it until you have money back.
Here are some more photos I reduced in size quickly this morning in order to upload here. I hope they are still visible.
The assembled bike photos are the sellers that he sent me.
For what it’s worth, I needed to ID the year of my Zipp 808s. I just emailed Zipp the numbers. They write back and asked for pics of the hubs and confirmed the year.
I would recommend that you do that as well and have Zipp confirm if they are real or not.
'sAt present I am establishing without doubt if it is or not an Argon 18 bike, then if possible what it actually is. Then I will demand a refund. From there it will either be either customs in the Netherlands, where he lives. Or in France, where I live. Or contacting the Intellectual property rights owners ( Argon 18 and ZIPP) and seeing if they would like to pursue action. You never know he might decide to refund when this is all pointed at him. Here’s hoping…
Unfortunately as I collected in person, I am not covered by their buyer protection. Their policy states delivery …
Not true. I Paid for a mechanic service last year via paypal and he screwed me I had to call a tow truck for my totaled car. I was able to recoup the money I paid for the mechanic. Car was still totaled though.
You didnt pay by paypal ‘gift’, did you?
Assuming you didn’t, you should be covered by paypal. Let the seller know right away that you’ve confirmed with Argon 18 that the frame is fake, and that you’d like a refund. Open a dispute with paypal, and don’t close it until you have money back.
HOW DID YOU PAY VIA PAYPAL??? Was this a personal transfer to friends and family a gift? or was this a payment the seller set up in exchange for goods.
The first is free the latter the seller pays fees…
“Delivery” doesn’t mean what you think it does. It is not limited to shipping/mailing the item. Delivery is simply the transfer of goods from seller to buyer. For instance, you take delivery of your new car but signing off on the paperwork and driving it off the lot.
Unfortunately as I collected in person, I am not covered by their buyer protection. Their policy states delivery …
Show us a closeup of the Zipp hubs (including any logos on them).
The frame has got to be fake. It’s got features that are very similar to the E118 that I can see in pictures, but has some distinct differences that i’ve never seen in an E118.
