How fast do you think Phelps could swim if you were allowed to dolphin as far as you wanted underwater? 50m in? 100m in? 200m in?
It annoys me a bit that they outlawed “freestyle” (aka get from one end to the other as fast as you can) in favor of a maximum of 15m underwater then do what you want.
I understand why they banned this practice in butterfly and backstroke (they don’t want someone with a good dolphin kick to win everything, they want people who are good at butterfly and backstroke to win) but it annoys me that they did so for freestyle.
Freestyle to me means just that, free style, in other words, *any *style. Do what you want. In my opinion there should be a swimming race in which the aim is to go as fast as you can however you want. I mean technically what we know as freestyle is actually the front crawl. It was invented by an Australian guy many years ago and before that in “freestyle” races they did some other weird stroke (can’t be bothered refreshing my memory as to how it was done).
Anyway, (a) how quick do you think Phelps would go if he could dolphin as far as he wanted (b) do you think there should true “free style” races?
Swimming’s governing bodies really had no choice. If it remained legal, the sport would be even more spectator-unfriendly than it already is. How boring would it be to watch a 50-m free Olympic final in which all 9 athletes spent the entire time underwater?
That rule came into effect in Illinois high school swimming when I was a junior. The prior year, the winner of the 100-yard back spent roughly 90 meters underwater. It was kinda cool, but if everyone did this it would take away from the sport (i.e., not as sexy, not a true “full body” sport).
Yeah, as I said, I understand why they did it, I just think that it’s sad that they destroyed the “freestyle” race. It would have been nice if they’d called the 50, 100, 200, 400, 1500m races as they are now “front crawl” and added a 50, 100 and 200m of *true *freestyle. Or it would be fun if these events were just held at world champs like the 50m fly, back, breast.
what would be more interesting, would be to see what elite athletes would do for 400m, 800m, and 1500m long events, if they could swim them in “true” freestyle.
because then a trade-off starts between speed and breathing. the the dolphining underwater would not work so well, but i wonder to what degree would it decrease?
Did you see the 60 Minutes show after the Olympics where Phelps and Anderson Cooper had a race one length of the pool? Cooper did the crawl and Phelps had to do the entire length underwater. Phelps dolphined and smoked Cooper soundly. Not saying that’s a fair matchup, just saying that Phelps was really fast, even doing a dolphin kick underwater the entire length of the pool.
what would be more interesting, would be to see what elite athletes would do for 400m, 800m, and 1500m long events, if they could swim them in “true” freestyle.
because then a trade-off starts between speed and breathing. the the dolphining underwater would not work so well, but i wonder to what degree would it decrease?
It wouldn’t likely change much in those events, because most of the athletes do not push the current 15 meter limit for those events. The trade-off is already taken into account for those races, as the limit is much greater than what the athletes actually can do in order to achieve fastest performance.
You’ve obviously never been part of an after practice “let’s see who can swim the farthest underwater” contest that ends with someone passing out and being dragged out the pool by his teammates. . . Letting folks swim underwater in races as long as the wanted would end up killing someone eventually
If dolphining underwater was faster over a long distance, freestylers today would be popping up right at the 15 meter mark, but they aren’t. Rarely do you see a freestyler come close to going that far underwater, even off the dive. Since freestylers are not even staying down for the distance they are allowed to, one must assume they are “swimming” because it is faster than staying down. On the other hand, you do routinely see backstrokers dolpin kick right to the 15 meter mark.
FWIW - I swam back in the day before the 15 meter rule was put into effect but around the time under water dolphin kicking was becoming a race strategy. I did see guys do races almost entirely underwater but only in backstroke. It was faster for many swimmers (if you could hold your breath) but for freestyle, it did not appear to be faster so no one was doing it in free even when it was allowed.
I went to the Cal-Stanford dual meet some years ago when Jeff Rouse swam for Stanford. I recall he was one of the first to dolphin in the backstroke. He had some sort of injury (wrist, I think) that day that prevented him from swimming backstroke so he swam the 50 free. He didn’t take one stroke, surfaced for a breath at the turn and finished less than a half body length back of the winner. Pretty impressive.
(1) Freestyle to me means just that, free style, in other words, *any *style. Do what you want.
(2) do you think there should true “free style” races?
(1) It already is. You can do whatever you want within the rules. A good butterflyer could turn up and race it butterfly if they wanted to.
(2) No. There are already far too many swimming events compared to everything else at the Olympics.
Feel free to add it to exhibition events and the world champs if you really must, but it’ll get the kind of response from the top athletes the kilo gets now it’s no longer an Olympic discipline.
As other posters have said, they won’t do this, partly because it’s not as interesting to watch, but mostly because it would get dangerous. If they don’t let kids dive off of starting blocks in five feet of water anymore, they certainly aren’t going to let them swim underwater the whole race.
And, and Phelps would not be as fast in the 50 no matter how far he swum under water as at least 50 swimmers in the world. Didn’t he turn about 7th in the 100 fly finals at the 2008 games?
I went to the Cal-Stanford dual meet some years ago when Jeff Rouse swam for Stanford. I recall he was one of the first to dolphin in the backstroke. He had some sort of injury (wrist, I think) that day that prevented him from swimming backstroke so he swam the 50 free. He didn’t take one stroke, surfaced for a breath at the turn and finished less than a half body length back of the winner. Pretty impressive.
Berkoff (of Berkoff Blastoff fame) himself did just that in a dual meet (with Princeton?). He dove off the blocks, flipped over and did fly kick, turned somehow, and dolphined back to win the 50 free in 21.x, IIRC.
But where does that momentum run out? If you’re seriously good at it, dolphin kick is faster than front crawl for a fair way of the dive and walls.
I don’t think there’s any doubt Phelp’s would have done a quicker 200m if he had been able to dolphin further. I think he could break the 100m free WR if he was able to dolphin further (and regardless I think he’ll be the man to beat in Rome).
When Popov swam 21.64 (wearing old school bathers) he dolphined right to 15m, I’ve no doubt he could have gone faster if he could have dolphined further.
I Ride among 9 others… a very modern and dialed 650c ZIPP 3001
Lg/Lg. I am 6-3 and 180…It never goes slower than 2:30 or 5:05.
But please go back to Sydney 2000. Watch Mens 100M Free final Australia’s MICHAEL KLIM.
(I suggest Youtube coverage of the AUSTRALIAN feed)
He goes into the water with 10 SDK’s (in 2000!) and 6 off the wall.
Finishes with DKs from 15M to the wall.
Also, watch the best Free relay to date (Sydney 2000 Mens 4X100FR)
Klim goes a NEW WORLD RECORD (48.18 in a FS, w/No Arms)
I predict at ULTRASWIM:
One of these men will win the 100M Free
Matt Grevers
Nathan Adrian
Cesar Cielo
Phelps will swim the fastest 2nd 50M
He will have the usual, plus a more straight armed stroke
He will have a higher stroke rate
he will own the 200 free
*
Hey,
Go back to backstroke mens in 87 and 88.
Polianski, CBC TV’s own Mark Tewksberry, Montana Stampeder’ David “Blastoff!” Berkoff and the Japanese swimmer who actually started the craze.
They were going 40-45M of lap one doing SDK…Lap one was Freekin’ AWESOME as the weak would surface and the “WaterMen” would stay under.
Lap two was piano time. maybe 20M under at most.
Note that the old turn rule was in effect.
The flip turn became legal around 91 or 92.
Note Misty Hyman WON the 100M fly over Susie O’Neill at Sydney using probably 35M/25M of SDK…Misty won in the biggest upset swim of the games.
The key to SDK is amplitude. If you look like a"Monkey F*ckin’ a football, then you are doing it wrong
