Looking for a bit of advice on using one of these two plans for a Feb 2013 marathon…here’s my situation.
My tri season ended with Vineman 70.3 and I’m taking the rest of the year off from triathlon racing. I’m feeling a bit burned out after IMAZ 2011, a couple of HMs and OLYs, Boise (29.whatever) and Vineman 70.3. I haven’t done much since Vineman except drink a lot of craft beer (currently drinking a DFH 90min IPA) and I’ve just tried to regain my mental motivation. I’ve decided that I’d like to start a run focus (probably a little earlier than most) and prepare like never before for a marathon. I’d like to think that I’m capable of running a BQ time (3:05) but right now I don’t have any training/race results to support that goal. Realistically I think I could run a 3:10-3:15.
My stand alone marathon PR is 3:41(from 2010) and I ran a 3:51 at IMAZ 2011 (10:27:56 total). In February 2012 I set a HM PR of 1:28:17.
My initial plan was to work on rebuilding a base by starting to run 20 MPW and building by 10%/week up to 30 MPW over the next 7 weeks following the the info in the the famous BarryP threads (mainly keeping my runs easy and more on the aerobic side while increasing frequency). Then, I was going to start the Pfitzinger 18/55 (18 weeks with peak MPW @ 55) plan on the week of 10/15/2012 and follow that to my marathon on 2/17/2013. The first two weeks of the Pfitz plan are 33 and 36 miles per week with long runs of 12 and 13 miles respectively.
I’m concerned that I might not have enough time to adequately build up to the 18/55 plan and that it may be wiser to have a few weeks of consistent 30-40 MPW before starting a plan that incorporates more volume and intensity than I’m used to. If 7 weeks isn’t enough time to adequately build for the 18/55 plan I was thinking that it would be better to build up to the point where I was running 5-6 days a week with 30-40 MPW for 2-3 weeks and then I could start the Pfitz 12/55 plan for my marathon specific training. My main concern is remaining healthy and uninjured and putting in the work to possibly run a BQ time.
12/55 is for people that don’t have time for the 18/55 - you do… building up to 35mpw before you start shouldn’t be hard, and there’s not a lot of intensity till later in the plan anyway.
With your IM legs and discipline, you should skip the 55 plans and go right to the 18/70 plan.
You can definitely do it. It’s 70 mpw MAX - most of the time it’s at around 55-60, and when it starts, it’s at 45ish, all easy miles. When I was a pure runner I just jumped from 35 unstructured mpw right into 18/70 - it was challenging but totally doable. With IM legs, it shouldn’t be a problem whatsoever for you.
Even at 70mpw, your training time will be far, far less than your IM training time. Like close to half as much total hours. Just do the 18/70 - it’s a great program that starts slow and gives you time to really grow into the plan. Ironically, the 55mpw plan is better AFTER you’ve done the bigger mileage plans since you’ll be less reliant on the basebuilding aerobic part and more focused on the speed.
Thanks for the input. I knew that “get off my ass and starting running” was the right answer. While I’ve done almost no running over the past 5-6 weeks I know it won’t take much to get my fitness back. I’ll build up to 35 MPW over the next 6 weeks with easy miles and then I’ll start the 18/55 plan. I’m a little anxious as this plan will involve much more running than I’ve ever done before. During IM training (working with a coach) my weekly mileage only peaked at around 35 miles. My main concern is being able to handle the 18/55 plan with only 6 weeks of base building.
I think the 18/70 plan would be too aggressive for me given my lack of run consistency. I definitely don’t think I’d be ready to jump into that plan in 6 weeks. If I complete the 18/55 plan successfully then I’d consider the 18/70 for future races.
With your IM legs and discipline, you should skip the 55 plans and go right to the 18/70 plan.
You can definitely do it. It’s 70 mpw MAX - most of the time it’s at around 55-60, and when it starts, it’s at 45ish, all easy miles. When I was a pure runner I just jumped from 35 unstructured mpw right into 18/70 - it was challenging but totally doable. With IM legs, it shouldn’t be a problem whatsoever for you.
Even at 70mpw, your training time will be far, far less than your IM training time. Like close to half as much total hours. Just do the 18/70 - it’s a great program that starts slow and gives you time to really grow into the plan. Ironically, the 55mpw plan is better AFTER you’ve done the bigger mileage plans since you’ll be less reliant on the basebuilding aerobic part and more focused on the speed.
QFT - 55 likely won’t give you the volume you need to BQ. I rode the 18/70 plan to a BQ in my first try. You can do it.
QFT - 55 likely won’t give you the volume you need to BQ. I rode the 18/70 plan to a BQ in my first try. You can do it.
Given his HM PB of 1:28 on relatively low mileage, you don’t think a structured plan, peaking at 55 miles/week will get him the necessary tools to run a 3:05?
I did a 140.6 late last September, then did the JFK 50 mile run mid November. I then started the Pfitz 18/70 (or whatever number it is in the 70’s), got to week 12 and then got blasted by some hamstring tendonitis. In saying that, my stand alone marathon PR is 3:37 on a super hilly Charlottesville course. My hamstring injury popped up in March, I kept in gentle until June and then still had the base to run a 38:XX 10K which was a PR. It’s crazy the shape that the 18/70 program gets you in. The only downfall was I was training for an April marathon at the time so a lot of my runs were in the dark before work or in the dark after work because of day light savings time. That was my only gripe. I’m not sure if 70 miles a week was just too much for my legs to take and that perhaps I should try the 18/55 program next or if my legs just weren’t rested after doing a 140.6 and 50 mile ultra less than 2 months after each other and then starting marathon training a month later. I’m betting on the legs not being healed up. I’m still a little apprehensive about putting in too many miles, but my running is at 40 miles a week right now for Ironman Florida with no pain.
Again, the Pfitz training program is amazing! You will be in a super shape. Make sure you buy the book too because he goes into detail as to what you are to accomplish on each run. Also I was thinking of possibly doing the 70 mile a week program but putting in a bike ride and swim on the recovery run days. I can get a more intense workout and take a little pounding off the legs. I think that would be a good substitute.
Given his HM PB of 1:28 on relatively low mileage, you don’t think a structured plan, peaking at 55 miles/week will get him the necessary tools to run a 3:05?
Definitely possible, but those last 5 to 10 kilometers at that pace are truly killer. The 70 helps build the mental toughness as well as the endurance needed to get there.
I think the 18/70 plan would be too aggressive for me given my lack of run consistency. I definitely don’t think I’d be ready to jump into that plan in 6 weeks. If I complete the 18/55 plan successfully then I’d consider the 18/70 for future races.
I was in the same boat - don’t discount the plan pre-reqs. I was 30.67 mpw avg for 18 weeks before plan - which is way under the 45-50 recommended to start the 18/70. My ego wanted 18/70 for first plan but no injury is better.
I did 3:28 off 32.35mpw (no plan just volume) a few years ago so the structure and intensity of the 55/18 is working really well - it avg at 43.22mpw. Two days off (or 1 day + 1 day cross) has worked well. 18/70 is one day off with some doubles - avg is 60mpw - a big step for sure.
