PF BB30 removal help

Triathlon Forum
1

My daily commuter and sometimes training bike is a KHS Flite 900. Not a popular bike but actually a fantastic bike for the price. I love it.

It comes with a PF BB30 bottom bracket. It’s not the 42mm BB shell version where the bearing press right into the Shell (with cir clips). It’s the 46mm BB shell version where the bearings press into a nylon sleeve that presses into the shell. There’s a nylon sleeve that joins the two outer sleeves, in the middle of the BB shell. The BB has been in for about a year

I have the nifty Park Tool BB30 bearing removal tool (like a screwdriver with a T on the end rather than the point) and I’ve watched all sorts of You-tube videos. And I’m a mechanical engineer.

Firstly, I can’t believe that the friction fit BB30 was ever developed as a solution. It’s just a bad idea on so many levels IMHO. That said, it’s on my bike and I have to deal with it now.

I have used the tool and managed to get one side out after much beating with a hammer and profanities. The other side (drive side) appears to be at one with the universe and after 4 hours of teaching the entire neighbourhood new words, it’s moved about 0.1mm, and I’m being generous. I’ve beat the crap out of it. I’ve used penetration oil to try and get it out, and so on. I even manage to completely shag the bearing, tearing out the inner sleeve along with the captive balls. Only the outer sleeve, that is firmly in contact with the nylon sleeve, remains.

I’ve had people suggest heat, but as the frame is carbon, I’m nervous about doing that.

If it makes any difference, the crankset is FSA. There is no info on the nylon or bearings, but I’d expect that to be FSA as well?

Also, for the next installation, I’ve looked at these guys and I like the idea of the screw fit PFBB30 versions http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/bb386evo/386evo-bottom-brackets.html Anyone have any experience with them or have better ideas for replacements?

My questions are:
any suggestions for getting the nylon sleeve and remainder of the bearing out of the BB shell?
any suggestions for a replacement item so next time I can do it in the 10 minutes they show on You Tube?

2

You can try shooting compressed air on the inner sleeve (computer keyboard cleaner air) to try to shrink the sleeve a bit and continue to hit it. For bb replacements I just went with Chris king press fit. Little more expensive but serviceable without removing it and a 5-yr warranty.

3

Cool. I’ll grab the compressor out of the shed before I get the heat gun out.

I was actually thinking of using a hack saw to cut out the remaining part of the bearing out. It will destroy the sleeve, but as I’m replacing that anyway, that’s not a problem.

Thanks for the hint and the Chris King recommendation

4

I have that same tool. It is really made for the circlip/bb30 setup because all you need to knock out is the bearing.

I’m not clear on exactly how much of the PF30 BB you have left on the one side, but one tool that will knock those things out while intact is a headset cup remover. The split tube variety as here. You can even bend the tabs out a bit to force the tool as far against the inside back of the PF cup/bearing.

I just removed a Wheels Manufacturing thread together PF30 BB as it seemed to be squeaking. The tolerance with it and my frame were such that the side that was supposed to press in went in by hand. It turns out it may not have been the BB squeaking, but I need a few more rides to confirm. After install the Wheels Mfg BB didn’t spin too smooth. As with any BB the drag probably amounts to nothing, but having more drag than the cheepo plastic cup SRAM models didn’t inspire confidence.

For now I pressed in another plastic cup SRAM BB. I used to be more concerned about getting them out, but the headset tool worked fine for me, even removing a very tight fitting aluminum cup PF30 BB from another frame.

PF30 install goes really smooth if you have a decent press (headset press or purpose made bearing press) and the correct drifts. Every manufacturer seems to have their own requirements/recommendations for grease.

5

I actually made my own one of those headset tools, out of an old 27.?mm ali seatpost (to fit through the 30mm hole the crank uses). I cut four slots into the ali tube and splayed the resulting tabs apart. I pinch the splayed tabs to get them inside the nylon sleeve. I push down until the tube touches the nylon lip that retains the bearing (similar to the job the cir clips do). I’ve been beating the crap out of it, and it won’t budge. I will adjust the home made tool a little as with hard blows, it springs back in and shoots out the other side. If I grind the face of the end of the seat post tool, I can get it to bite onto the nylon flange/lip instead of the pipe slipping on the flange (plenty of bearing grease and penetrating oil everywhere at the moment. Of course, that might just rip the entire flange/lip off the sleeve, but it will be one step closer to glory at least.

Wish me luck. My neighbours already know all the bad words. LOL

6

I’ve never had an issue like that with PF30 cups. I’ve come across a few that were really tight, but since I’m generally not trying to save the cup and bearing, a large punch and mallet usually does the trick. If the inner sleeve connecting the bearing cups is gone, just hit at the base of the cup, but try not to gouge the BB shell.

7

I gave up on saving the cup after the first hour. It is well and truly munted now.

I am currently riding my sons bike as a daily commuter. It was my old commuter bike so all good. At least I can stay riding and not have to resort to taking the car.

This weekend I will carefully heat the PF bearing and cup. If that doesn’t work, then the hacksaw will get a workout. I will take great care not to damage the BB Shell.

A Chris King PF bearing set, will go in. I’m also ordering the (yet another) special tool to grease the Chris King bearings. When they do go in, they will get installed in a sea of grease so I don’t have to go through this crap ever again.

Thanks to all for the suggestions from the ever helpful Slowtwitch brains trust

8

Further to my initial question, when I install the new bearings, what grease should I use?

I have a grease gun, currently shooting fairly thin white lithium grease that I use for most things. I also have some thicker flouro green grease, not sure of the spec or brand, but its’ specifically bike grease. I only used it once, then switched to the white grease. I also have some brown axle grease that I use on the wheel bearings of my boat trailer. Given the horrible riding conditions here in Auckland, particularly riding on the waterfront in winter (lots of salt spray, beach sand and other crud) that a bearing grease for boat trailers might be the right stuff to use.

I know the bearings will already be greased, but I’m talking about slathering grease all around everything as I install things. I figure an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and while Chris King makes great stuff, a few extra dollars of grease at installation time can only improve things?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Also, as I’m getting the grease injection tool to go with the PF bearings, what sort of grease do people recommend for greasing the actual bearings?

9

Praxis and wheelsmfg thread together BBs are what I use to avoid all that violence. Also more confident of alignment

10

Wheels Mfg are out of stock of their one! Faaaaaarrrrrkkkkkk!

BTW, is the 16 tooth tool they mention, the same as the old notched external BB bearings (Shimano?) tool

Now I’m looking at Chris King instead. Way more $, but hopefully solves my problems.

I’ll look into Praxis tho.

11

BTW, is the 16 tooth tool they mention, the same as the old notched external BB bearings (Shimano?) tool

No, that would be too easy. It’s a bit larger diameter

Now I’m looking at Chris King instead. Way more $, but hopefully solves my problems.
I’ll look into Praxis tho.

Praxis only useful if you’re converting PF30 to shimano or SRAM cranks - no help if you need a 30mm spindle to go through.
Given the price difference to CK you could get Praxis and a Shimano crankset and come out about even!

12

Bugger (re the different tool) (at least the Wheels Mfg tool is only $18 USD which is offensively cheap given the normal over inflated price of bike tools.

I think I’ll just stick with Chris King and be done with it.

Paying $USD for Chris King stuff means the Fiji holiday will go on hold, but at least I’ll have nice bike parts :slight_smile:

13

The thing about the CK PF30 BB that I couldn’t understand was that with all the other attention to detail they end up using those plastic spacers between the crank spindle and inner bearing races?!? My other experience with CK stuff is that while the regreasable, proprietary bearings sound great, being able to toss old sealed bearings and replace with new ones off the shelf is pretty handy.

As for installation grease, this stuff recommended by Kogel is supposed to be just the thing for wet environments if you can find it: See Aquaproof Paste here. I’ve been using it for sealing around the BB and the liner sleeve, etc.

14

Are you saying that the CK bearings in their unit aren’t replaceable? or standard?

I haven’t looked at their PF in detail (just one picture on their website as far as I could tell). It does look like there’s a plastic part of some sort to bush the inner bearing down to 30mm diameter. Clearly, that means the inner diameter of the bearing has to be larger than 30mm (34mm as a guess)

The diameter of the outer sleeve obviously has to match the 46mm diameter of the PF BB30 standard, but it’s unclear what the inside diameter of that, and the outer diameter of the bearing are. Does anyone know if the CK bearing is a standard of some sort or whether it truly is completely proprietary? I’d much prefer to have at least the bearing be replaceable, preferably from my LBS since shipping from USA to NZ seems to take ages. I know they are warranted from CK for 5 years, but in my experience (especially in a different country) a warranty an $4 will get you a cup of coffee.

With all the trouble I’m currently having, removing a nylon cup from a ali BB shell, after just 2 years, I can’t imagine how much difficulty I’m gunna have getting a CK ali cup out of an ali shell.

Mother of all that’s holy, this is incredibly frustrating. Seems like everyone involved with the PF BB30 standard spent all 3 days at Woodstock!

15

found a source for Wheel Mfg threaded PF BB30’s

I also asked Chris King several questions about their PF 30BB’s but have yet to hear back from them.

I’ll report what I hear.

16

Are you saying that the CK bearings in their unit aren’t replaceable? or standard?

CK produces their own bearings. I have not serviced one of their BB’s, but reviewing their manual online they look to follow the same process with BB bearings that they do with their hubs. Proprietary bearings with seals that are designed for removal, bearing cleaning, bearing greasing and seal reinstallation. In the case of the BB they make the grease injection tool you mentioned previously. So if the bearings are reasonably clean they can just be regreased, but if they are gritty they need to be opened and serviced. Nothing wrong with this approach if the customer is ok with it.

I assume the CK bearings in the BB can be pressed out and replaced…with CK replacement bearings if they are available.

If you go the Wheels Mfg direction the wrench they use is the Park BBT-29 and is easy to find.

17

I got the wheels mfg BBright BB and I really appreciate that it threads into itself to create a tight and wiggle-free fit.

The BB does require a larger tool than the standard Shimano Hollowtech BB tool. The few shops that I spoke with had no clue what was needed.

Fortunately, as you have seen, Park Tools does sell the BBT-29 that works perfectly for the job. At first, I thought I might need two tools (one for either side), but in practice, only one tool was needed

18

get the wheels mfg. they’re really quite great

19

on the WM threaded pf30, can you replace the bearings with other bearings? just curious. will this put an end to the cervelo creaking/popping? :slight_smile:

20

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. No heat, no air, none of that.

PressFit BBs are a designed interference fit, as you mentioned. Sometimes if you get lucky you can use the Park BBT 30.3, which it sound like you have.

Typically you will need to use the rocket ship (Park BBT 90.3) to do the job. As it’s an interference fit & you typically don’t use grease when installing press-fit cups, you’ve got to whack that thing out with much more force than you’d expect.

Make sure the prongs of the tool are lined up with the cup shell and not eating into your BB shell. It helps to have the bike on the ground or at least braced against your legs. Use a big hammer.

You’ll destroy the bearings and the shell, but it will come out just fine.