Looks like time finally ran out on Pete Rose and his chance to get into the HOF. Just wondering if people feel he has paid his dues or is a lifetime ban the appropriate punishment? Personally I think the man should be in the HOF. It just seems unfathomable to me that someone of his talent won’t be in there. I also wonder what kind of scrutiny Barry Bonds and Rafael Palmeiro will undergo when it comes time for them to be considered?
Put him in the hall. He’s one of the best baseball players in history. Gambling addiction is a health/legal issue, not a baseball issue.
-C
As a baseball player yeah. For the other stuff in his life no.
Shouldn’t this be in the Lavender Room? As I inevitably bump it up.
I say put him the HOF for what he did on the field and punish him for the gambling by not letting him work in baseball in any capacity anymore.
Maybe this is Lavendar Room material, I don’t know. But as to your question I think there’s no way in hell he should be allowed in the hall of fame. But I’m old fashioned, I’d like to believe that those that we put on a pedistal ought to be stand up guys. Granted, there are lots of sleaze bags in lots of Halls of Fame, etc. but IMO that shouldn’t justify putting more sleazebags in.
I tend to agree that he needs to be in the HOF based on his abilities and accomplishments on the field. But, gambling is listed in the rules just like balls and strikes are. Its made clear to the athletes that its illegal and breaks the rules of baseball. Since its a rule he knowingly broke and arguably affected the outcome of some games (since he bet against his own team while he was on that team), he really is getting what he deserves. Having said that, 60 Minutes interviewed him a few years back and they pretty much said if he comes clean with the baseball commissioner, there are good odds they would allow him back in the HOF. Rose will not do his part. Maybe he needs to eat some humble pie and take a lesson from Nina Kraft. She confessed early to cheating and is already racing again.
In theory, Rose can still make the Hall. Assuming he is ever reinstated, the Veteran’s Committee can vote him in, although the committee is made of ex-ball players who are widely believed to oppose his candidacy.
Should he be in? His stats certainly say so. At some point, he should have a spot in the big room. But he also committed baseball’s original sin. Every ball player knows the Black Sox scandal and the fate of Shoeless Joe Jackson. Should Rose ever make it in, his biography should certainly talk about the fact that he was banned for gambling.
And Palmeiro has ZERO chance of making the hall. He was caught cheating at a time that it was clearly banned. He’s done. Bonds could be more difficult, although if it was ever revealed that he knowingly took steroids, I would want to see that fact on his HOF plaque similar to what Rose might get.
I think Pete Rose is vastly over-rated as a baseball player. He was basically a 1 trick pony and that trick was the single. His lifetime average was .303, very good but well below A LOT of Hall of Famers like Wade Boggs (.328) for example who doesn’t get the same notoriety.
Looking at Rose’s career, he never drove in more than 82 runs (and he didn’t lead off all the time so he had the opportunity), never hit more than 16 home runs, never stole more than 20 bases (and was thrown out almost as much as he was safe (198 SB/149 thrown out)), and wasn’t a stand out defensively, he was shuttled among a number of positions to get his bat in the lineup.
So what are you left with, he did lead the league in hitting twice, ran the bases with abandon, scored over 100 runs many times, had good leadership skills, and what make his numbers “Hall-worthy” are his longevity … he did it for 24 years.
Now consider the overwhelming evidence that he bet on baseball (read the Dowd report) and his half assed attempts at an apology and I say let him rot and don’t even consider him for the hall until he offers a real apology. This from a lifelong Philly fan, whose last World Series was when Rose suited up in 1980.
Just because its not tri related? Do all non tri related subjects need to go the LR? Seems to me thats a bit over the top but OK if you say so. This was not meant to be inflamatory or argumentative. I just wondered what others thought about a sports related topic. But hey thanks for the tip.ted.
As someone else noted, he’s the all-time leader in hits…by almost 1000 hits over everyone but Cobb. I don’t care what else you measure by…that is HOF material, plain and simple. The fact that he continues to be an ass and has bet on baseball while actively coaching it has nothing to do with his HOF performance as a player.
When it comes to the HOF…you’d better find people like Ryan, Aaron, Rose, Ripkin, and anyone else who holds the all-time number for any meaningful stat at any point in their careers inducted as players. Some folks want to hold up the fact that you CAN find stuff about Rose in there and say that he’s been properly recognized. BS. He should be in.
To clarify my earlier post, I believe based on baseball performance alone he should be in the Hall (obviously), what i was trying to get at is that although you have to let him in because of his numbers, just like everyone with 3000 hits, 500 HR or 300 wins gets in … his accomplishments were more related to longevity then anything else.
My personal feeling is that the Hall ideally should be for guys who dominated in their competitive era … like Mike Schmidt and Steve Carlton, as opposed to consistent performers (ala Paul Molitor) who hang around for a long time but that is not for me to decide. I guess what I’m saying is that he belongs in on baseball merit but that he is closer to Paul Molitor than Babe Ruth.
And for the record here are the top 12 in alltime hits (all of them within 1001 hits of Rose in fewer games (Rose has over 200 games than any other guy on the list)), note Ty Cobb’s lifetime average of .367. Rose, Murray, Molitor and Yaz standout as the “longevity” guys. Aaron and Mays also played for a long time but had better all-around numbers.
**Player **  **G**  **AB**  **R**  **H**  **2B**  **3B**  **HR**  **RBI**  **TB**  **BB**  **SO**  **SB**  **CS**  **OBP**  **SLG**  **AVG**   1. <u>P Rose</u> 3562 14053 2165 4256 746 135 160 1314 5752 1566 1143 198 149 .375 .409 .303  2. <u>T Cobb</u> 3035 11429 2245 4191 723 297 117 1938 5859 1249 357 892 --- .424 .513 .367  3. <u>H Aaron</u> 3298 12364 2174 3771 624 98 755 2297 6856 1402 1383 240 73 .374 .555 .305  4. <u>S Musial</u> 3026 10972 1949 3630 725 177 475 1951 6134 1599 696 78 --- .417 .559 .331  5. <u>T Speaker</u> 2789 10195 1882 3514 792 222 117 1529 5101 1381 220 432 --- .417 .500 .345  6. <u>C Yastrzemski</u> 3308 11988 1816 3419 646 59 452 1844 5539 1845 1393 168 116 .379 .462 .285  7. <u>C Anson</u> 2523 10278 1996 3418 581 142 97 2076 4574 983 302 --- --- --- .445 .333  8. <u>H Wagner</u> 2792 10430 1736 3415 640 252 101 1732 4862 963 327 722 --- .384 .466 .327  9. <u>P Molitor</u> 2683 10835 1782 3319 605 114 234 1307 4854 1094 1244 504 131 .369 .448 .306  10. <u>E Collins</u> 2826 9949 1821 3315 438 187 47 1300 4268 1499 286 745 --- .406 .429 .333  11. <u>W Mays</u> 2992 10881 2062 3283 523 140 660 1903 6066 1464 1526 338 103 .386 .557 .302  12. <u>E Murray</u> 3026 11336 1627 3255 560 35 504 1917 5397 1333 1516 110 43 .359 .476 .287