I want to use Perpetuem as my primary source for caloric intake on the bike and plan to take one serving (270 cals) per hour (along with one gel @90 calories).
Given that I will need 5 servings of Perpetuem and given that I will also need room for water/IM Perform, I’m not sure how to carry it.
I also understand that it is subject to spoilage if not consumed within a couple hours in hot conditions.
I guess I could just pack 5 servings of powder and keep one of the three bottles I’ll be carrying designated for that but then I will have to stop and make a bottle every hour which is propbably not that big of a deal but I wanted to find out if any other Perpetuem fans out there had other suggestions.
Be sure to have a backup plan as well. I tried the concentrated solution of perpetupaste in Lake Placid one year. By the second loop, I literally couldn’t get it in my mouth without gagging. It was terrible. If you HAVE to use it, I would mix 2 bottles with regular solution and then suplement that with some gels, bananas and actual food.
I’ve used Hammer products for 8 ironman races. I take 2 scoops of Perpetuem + 1 scoop of HEED and mix it in 1 bottle (360 calories) and take 2 of these bottles for the 1st bike loop and take another 2 at special needs for the 2nd bike loop. I use Hammer Gel on the bike as well. I usually freeze the bottles the night before. Have never had problems with the Hammer stuff going bad, but I have heard if you have it for 8+ hours, you should throw it away.
Not exactly how your hydration setup is, but last year i ran an aerobottle up front with two behind the seat cages. In the aerobottle there was already one serving of perpetuem, and I carried a condensed bottle of perpetuem (around 4 servings) and would mix a serving and a bottle of water from the aid stations into the aerobottle. The concentrate is kind of thick, but mixes well enough with the water so I could do it while riding. Other cage i used for water/gatorade.
I also had a spare bottle with a couple servings in my special needs bag, but didnt end up using it.
I start the bike with two bottles of perpetuem. I drink the first one down within the first hour but still grab a water bottle for a couple gulps and gatorade for a couple gulps each aid station.
Also hit the gel every 45 mins.
In my special needs bag I have 2 more bottles of mixed perpetuem ready to go and do the same routine through the end of the bike. If its a very hot day you can freeze the special needs bottles and they will thaw by the time you get there and be cold but I dont usually do that and have never had an issue with spoilage.
I’ve done the same thing with one bottle of perpetuem and one of sustained as well and the plain flavor of sustained can come in handy on the back side when you are sick of the perpetuem taste.
I had 2 bottles of concentrated mixtures. I can’t remember exactly, but about 1000 calories per bottle.
I had one on my bike from the start, the 2nd was in special needs.
I plan to use Perpet for my IM (first one - IMWI), and I have 2 regular cages on my bike.
I plan to make a 3-hour bottle of Perpet for the downtube cage, and I’m going to experiment this weekend with concentrating that more to stretch it out. I don’t want to be drinking paste out there, but we’ll see… I’d prefer to have a stronger bottle on me in case I can’t get my SN bag for some crazy reason.
I’ll have another 3-hour bottle of Perpet waiting in the SN bag.
The other cage is between the bars - I’ll start of with an Accelerade mix in there, and then swap it out on course for water/powerade as required. Supplement all of that with a Hammer gel flask (jersey pocket) + electrolyte pills (taped to aero bar wing) as needed. Other fuel will be scavenged on-course…
I’m not concerned about the Perpetuem spoilage. If there’s any reason to be, please don’t tell me. Ignorance is bliss.
I use perpetuem. For an ironman I mix it in the morning of the race, put it in the freezer for an hour or so then put it on my bike. I make a 1000 calorie bottle which lasts me almost 4 hours. Its never gone bad in training or racing for me.
I supplement with bananas on the course and gatorade.
I’ve used Hammer products for 8 ironman races. I take 2 scoops of Perpetuem + 1 scoop of HEED and mix it in 1 bottle (360 calories) and take 2 of these bottles for the 1st bike loop and take another 2 at special needs for the 2nd bike loop. I use Hammer Gel on the bike as well. I usually freeze the bottles the night before. Have never had problems with the Hammer stuff going bad, but I have heard if you have it for 8+ hours, you should throw it away.
x2. Same for me. PerpetuaHeed mixture is da bomb and has worked very well with my stomach.
Take 1/2 of the Perpetuem on your bike (mixed and in a bottle) and pick up 1/2 of the Perpetuem at the special needs pickup halfway through the bike (unmixed, mix it when you pick up your special needs bag).
Knowing the possibility that the Perp could go bad in hot conditions, I tried the freezing strategy during an IM. The day did not turn out to be as hot as predicted and the Perp bottle I grabbed from my special needs bag was still mostly frozen. Next time (if there is one) I’ll just add water to a bottle that has the dry powder in it. I think the reason I didn’t do that was Perp does not mix well without generous shaking/stirring. Also, I agree with the previous poster who mentioned it’s never a bad idea to have a back-up plan.
I used it at IMAZ last year, made 2 bottles w/ ~800 calories each, froze one overnight and put in my special needs bag wrapped in a small towel, put the other on my downtube. I used a bottle of water between my aerobars and replenished as needed on the course. When I got my special needs bag my 2nd bottle was still mostly frozen so there was never a worry of it spoiling.
For CdA last year I made two 3hr bottles mixed one and put it in my downtube cage and left the other unmixed and put it in a cage behind the seat. Once I finished the first one, I grabbed a water bottle on course and squeezed it into the second bottle. Worked flawlessly. Avoided the whole ‘perp goes bad’ issue and was able to get cold water into the second bottle rather than drinking it warm - which I could do without.
I’ll take 5 scoops of Perp (or SE) and mix it with 5 servings of HG. It’ll work out to ~1050cal/bottle, or 3hrs of nutrition for me. I’ll make two bottles. I’ll then freeze them. You can either carry both on the bike or put one in special needs. If you expect the race to be hot, buy one of those disposable cooler bags for the bottle in SN. be careful about freezing solid the bottle that you’ll use for the first half of the bike.
The one nice thing about this approach is you can flavor the Perp any way you like. I prefer raspberry.
Do you use the Perpet-HEED combo for the flavor? I was under the impression that HEED is what you should use for shorter-term workouts (60-90 min. or less) and Perpetuem for longer (90+) since it has the protein added in. So while HEED and Perpetuem clearly don’t taste alike – Perpet tastes like ass compared to HEED, IMHO – I didn’t think there was a nutritional need to use both at the same time (?)
btw - glad you haven’t experienced Perpetuem gone bad… its quite an eye-opener
I suggest storing your Perpetuem as far away from the human body as possible, taking extra precaution not to get it anywhere near your mouth during an IM. If you don’t heed (get it) my advice, I would recommend making two concentrated bottles and keeping them on your bike and drinking water from an aero bottle. Barring that, you can keep it in bottles in powder form at special needs.
I used 5oz flasks of mixed up Perpetuem gel with a little razberry Hammer gel for flavor, + regular 16oz water bottles with a thick mixture.
To your point though, I froze them the night before. For long training rides of 200K or more, - I use a 16oz water bottle with about 8 scoops of Perpetum + gel and freeze those the night before.
I use it on bike and run. Bike I usually just mix a lot of it, but this year i’m going to mix two bottles and freeze them the night before…put one in bike special needs.
I use it on the run too, and have always mixed two bottles and froze them over night. It’s still relatively cold by the time I get to special needs.
NEVER had it go bad on me in that amount of time. Might start to taste funny from being warm, but I think anything you’d drink for 11 hours starts to taste funny during an IM.
I no longer use Perpetuem but that is somewhat off topic (CarboPro+EFS), anyway just was suprised that no one mentioned a higher capacity system like a Speedfill. I know of quite a few people who have their entire ride’s worth of Infinit (or ostensibly Perpetuem) in their Speedfill and just not worry about fumbling bottles.
That aside, I feel I have to mention that 360 calories per hour sounds excessive in terms of nutrition in general. The amount of calories you can absorb during racing is variable, dependent on both your own personal tolerances and the intensity at which you are riding. Still, I’m targeting about 250 calories per hour and I would rather take in too little than too many calories by far. With each aid station being a near endless source of calories should you so chose to partake, my liklihood of a major bonk is not nearly as high as it would be if I were on a long self-supported training ride where I can/have simply ran out of water and/or fuel.