I’ve been riding my new Trek SC exclusively outdoors for the last 2 months in preparation for race season. With the addition of a dual sided powermeter and a lot of time in the saddle I’m starting to work on some of the finer points of maximizing my potential. I think my fit and position are pretty good and I will be dropping the front end a bit as I’m quite comfortable up to 56 miles. So assume that I’ve got a good starting point to work on other matters.
I’ve been trying to dial in the best technique for getting power to the pedals without fading in the stretch. The feet are going around in concentric 165mm circles but where do I put the emphasis?
Just stomp 'em. Same technique as being out of the saddle on a road bike - no opportunity for picking up a pedal on the return. This gives up a lot of potential obviously.Up with one and down with the other - a straight up and down motion. Engage the hamstring and gluteus muscles to get some extra watts.
Actively make your feet apply power in a circle, feel the resistance 360 degrees. This gets the most watts on the meter but is pretty tiring for more than just a sprint.
On my last ride my Garmin tells me I have:
52%L / 48%R (see the other thread on why this is not my fault)
74%L / 69%R Torque effectiveness
21%L / 21%R Pedal smoothness
Also the saddle position relative to the BB is something I haven’t fooled with since initial fit. I think the ISM PN3.0 saddle tip is 19mm from BB center. I do tend to move too far forward on the saddle and have to scooch back from time to time. Saddle is tilted a bit too much perhaps.
I don’t know what this data means or how to apply it to my training but like everyone else I just want to go faster! Any and all comments are appreciated, thanks.
You’ve got too much data and overthinking things IMO… Sounds like get a bike fit and work on your strength with hill repeats in aero or big gear work and you pedal stroke will improve naturally.
Don’t bother worrying about it. Pedalling efficiency metrics are pushed mainly by companies selling products which support pedalling efficiency metrics (or claim to improve pedalling efficiency).
Here is a study. TL;DR pedalling in circles or pulling up on the pedals might increase mechanical effectiveness, but it decreases gross efficiency. Translated as more fuel calories needed for your watts.
You have all this data, go out on the road and do some 2 mile TT efforts and try focusing on different things and vary the gearing / RPM’s. Decide what works, then test frequently on something like a 40k weekly practice effort.
Read this little book, it really helps cut through a lot of the clutter data can bring to our training
There have been a few different studies on pedaling technique. The main take aways are that altering your technique to a more effective stroke is roughly 20% Less efficient.
Pros tend to coordinate the push more effectively than beginners. Some do “unweighting” on the upstroke.
My little study 10 years ago with mainly triathletes confirmed the 20% loss in efficiency. Using emg on the quads we found that pulling up or using circles that the quads were active throughout the stroke and we found the lack of rest on the upstroke caused a large increase in fatigue.
Bohm et Al in 2008 that with training using smart (decoupled) cranks can change your technique but made no difference to efficiency.
I think many people who have raced bikes for a while have a boring story to tell about forgetting shoes and riding a race in a pair of red wings or hush puppies. The interesting thing for me was the fact that I could keep up just fine, the exception being hills and hard sprints out of the saddle. I pushed a little bigger gear and settled more on the midfoot, but pushing only seemed to get the job done OK.
I had a nice early morning ride today on a smoothly paved trail where I could stretch out and experiment with different scenarios. Nearly all my former riding habits involved club riding where often you have to bridge the gap or ride home alone. My go to move in that situation is to spin like crazy using every muscle I can recruit, get on a wheel and then take a breather if there’s time. Obviously that is not the way to ride a TT.
I was thinking more about fore and aft saddle position and where the best place is to keep the power on. I have a bit of a problem with scooting / sliding too far forward to the point of having to slide back every now and then. When I do move back on the saddle I seem to get a bit more efficient but that might be that I’m using a different muscle group that was “resting” temporarily.
I reset the saddle position, it is now 30mm behind BB center. I’ll play with that for a while and see how I respond to it. I also reduced the saddle angle to almost flat and I may increase the angle rise of the aero bars a bit too.
I like your spirit. It does seem to be a pretty different position when I look at bikes that people ride for those ultramarathon events like the iron Man compared to a standard distance time trial or a Sprint triathlon. One thing that is interesting is that sometimes people are able to go very fast without having a huge drop from the saddle to the bars. Perhaps your hips are supple enough to allow you to run a very low bar but if you are unable to do that then you put a lot of strain on your lumbar spine trying to get that cool looking position. Sometimes a more comfy position allows you to make more power and go faster.
I hate to admit that looking cool is important but I guess it is… but not at the expense of coming in first.
I guess I’m somewhat of an outlier in that I’m in the 65-69 AG but still have a lot of flexibility in my back and hips. What I don’t have is a lot of power so maximizing my position on the bike is the best card I can play. I’m also an Aquabiker and the half distance (1.2 mile swim and 56 mile bike) is the longest race available. Right now I have a couple of Olympic distance races coming up so comfort isn’t a priority. I also suffer quite well so it’s aero to the max!
Combine the Nu Bike pedals with an arm powered front wheel set up!
Best Bike Ever.
Fixed it for you.
BTW You should have a look at the study. It’s actually a negative study in that they thought independant cranks would be bad. Turns out maybe not. Who’d have thought it?