PC's: exclusive use is hogwash beyond initial period. Here is what you need to do after you have "adapted"

Background

I’ve had PC’s now for three years. First year was exclusive use. Second year half season exclusive use, half season regular cranks only. All races every season on conventional cranks

Year 3, all long and hard rides on regular cranks in tri position, bolted to the aerobars. All bike commuting miles (works out to around 6-7 hours per week in 30-60 min sessions) at 85-100 RPM on PC’s.

Here are my observations:

When you go exclusive use, you tend to overcompensate with hamstrings and hipflexors. This makes you a stronger runner. Over time, your quads also get “detrained” for proper biking. After around 70K of hard riding on regular cranks, my quads would start feeling like jello. This is because my pushing muscles (quads and but had lost fitness). My quads were actually visibly smaller.

Simulate Racing in Training

I always say that you need to simulate racing in training and train on the stuff you will race on. If you race in the heat, train in the heat, race on a tribike = train on tribike, race in wind = train in wind etc etc. Race on conventional cranks = train on conventional cranks.

Losing Quad Power ?

I did see huge value in powercranks after year 2, but felt that there was something missing.

I was losing quad power, so this year I decided to get the best of both worlds. I needed to be more specific and do long and hard rides in the tri position with regular cranks. PC’s would be reserved for “drill/synchronization/timing” work with a secondary benefit being additional training load on the hamstrings and hipflexors, helping both a “full pedal stroke” and my run foot turnover.

During one bike ride per week, I would do a very specific “weight” set, where I would ride uphills in the aero position in a huge gear at 50-60 RPM and then the next hill again aero at 90+ RPM in a small gear…all aerobic. Race day, I combine big gear and big RPM, but not in training. First hill works the push muscles, second hill the pull muscles at high RPM. The hills were around 2-5 min long and would last for around 1-2 hours. I felt I needed to strengthen my push muscles again, as I had started softpedalling with the quads from the previous years on PC’s.

The Evidence

This year, I had my best season yet on the bike. I could push and pull very well. I could keep up with big “engines” on the flats and into headwinds and could climb well (always my strength). Wind did not bother me. I split 2:27 and 2:28 on two very hilly, hot and windy half Ironman bike courses and then 2:23 and 2:15 on two flatter ones. I did top 10 bike splits in all my . My Ironman LP bike split was 5:40, where I held back big time to ensure that I finished the run out of the med tent (it worked as I did an LP PB).

Use in moderation

I am increasingly convinced that the PC’s are a great training tool, but like anything good, they should be used in moderation. You have to work your pull and push muscles in fact, working the push muscles is where you gain your power, working the pull muscles is where you maintain your momentum between strokes.

I’d like to get the input from all you other PC users and I am sure, Frank will have his views !

devashish i tend to agree with you here.

my own use is much more unstructured, but ends up being pretty close to yours.

i think that - after adaptation - very few people are gonna wanna be on the PC’s all the time, next to nobody, really. this does not in any way negate their benefit, in my view.

i also beleive that the silly " either/or " mindset that swirls around PC’s is puzzling, at best. if a guy treats them like any other excellent idea or practice life is easier. who among us stays with ANY training paradigm 100% of the time for all time ??

with that said, i do recognize that mr day is backed into his position by the endless sea of bleating haters who do not actually know of which they speak, and their demands/challenges. he has to keep giving out what he really feels is the “best” use for the “optimal” gain, or somesuch.

TTN, I think the world of Frank, but I do fear that his recommendation to use PC’s exclusively was from a limited data set of usage patterns. I think 3-5 years later, we have much more comprehensive data and I think it needs to be shared through the endurance community. 3years ago, there was a lot less data out there. Guys like you and I had not been on the things for 3 years.

his recommendation to use PC’s exclusively was from a limited data set of usage patterns.

Plus, he’s also trying to sell them to non-cyclists. If you’re a runner trying to use PCs as a cross training tool, I guess that exclusive use makes complete sense.

What would you say about using PCs some of the time and Rotors the rest of the time and for racing? Seems like you would get massive hammie as well as massive quads this way.

Flanagan, I think this would be the optimal usage. I’d save the PC’s for the easy/recovery days. Let me just amplify that I was unable to go to the “back and forth” usage models until I had 2 bikes. It would just be a huge pain in the ass otherwise.

What was your PC usage for the first 2 seasons? Were you using them for everything? Were you using them for just high cadence work like you do now? I actually find myself pushing very large gears with PCs. There are times when I work on just spinning with them, and when I do this I do not feel like I am using my quads/calves at all, just the hamstrings and hip flexors. This is my first season with them and I have not noticed a lack of power in my pushing muscles. I think it is critical to continue to focus on muscular endurance work with low to very low cadence in order to maintain strength in quads.

Paul, my current plans was to use the PC’s on my velotron indoor training.

But, I planned to stay with my regular cranks on my tri bike of races and long outdoor rides.

Would you see this as a good balance?

Dave

h20fun…I think this would be a good use, but you have to first put in ~4 months exclusive use to adapt to them. Then go to mixed use. Flanagan, first 1.5 years was PC’s for EVERYTHING except for racing.

Dev

A quick glance (ain’t the Web wonderful!) shows some of your history at Tupper Lake:

1998: 34:44/2:33/1:25 (no PC training)

1999: 33:35/2:30/1:28 (no PC training)

2002: 33:05/2:29/1:25 (no PC training)

2005: 30:52/2:28/1:38 (PC training)

I believe you’ve pointed out that you do very little swimming, so would you agree that your improvement in swim times from 2002 to 2005 may be due to improved overall fitness (as opposed to improved technique)? In addition, your bike splits show a downward trend prior to using PC, and your run splits (boy, you are fast!) were pretty consistent in that same time frame. After PC training, your bike split improved a bit, and your run split went to hell in a handbasket. I would have expected (given the point of PCs) to see an improvement in the run.

I readily acknowledge that four data points is a sorry sample, but that’s all I have to go by. Perhaps you can describe the run split improvements you’ve had year-over-year prior to and after PC training.

I hope to get in a week, and was planning on pretty much doing just indoor riding on them for maybe the next 4 months, so this may work out.

Thanks for the inputs. Will let folks know how it goes

Hey… what HIM did you split 2:15? That’s pretty good. Do you have a link to the results?

BTW, I totally believe you, I just want to know where that tri was, so I may go there for a good ride PB.

Trev

WOw, interesting numbers, shall be interested to hear Pauls thoughts.

Age could be a factor?

Dave

Dev,

Specificity, baby!

I came to the conclusion years ago that for bike and run training, you can never to too many hills!!

If there every was a silver bullet out there it’s that - hit the hills often and you WILL get better. And leave the HRM at home!

Fleck

WOw, interesting numbers, shall be interested to hear Pauls thoughts.

Age could be a factor?

Dave

Hell, he’s only 39. How much of a factor could it be?

Ken “47” Lehner

Ken, actually you can pull up 1998-2005 if you want as I was at Tupper for all those races except 2000 (in fact 11 times total going back to 1990).

Up until 2004, the run course was a full mile shorter. Yes my run has detiorated with age and since my joints don’t let me go as fast running, I have to make up with swim-bike. Tupper Lake was my 12th swim of the year this year. My swimming is not that great, but I did around 25% of my swimming pre tupper lake with the small black speedo paddles and used zero technique and 100% muscle power. Since Jun 9th though, I have been swimming openwater twice per week and it has also helped my swim.

And I do agree with Frank, PC training does help your swim kick (hip flexors and hamstrings).

Tri-poser the fast bike is at Esprit:

5 04:27:42 PAUL Devashish Ottawa CAN 1/26 H40-44 200 1 6 30:38 1:32 1:08 2 7 2:15:53 39.7 1:17 4 14 1:38:48 4:41

Although my run looks slow, there were only 2 duds sub 1:30 and I did have the 12th run split due to a mistake in results

While I am not 47, my frame has been through 21 tri seasons and just does not handle run mileage that well anymore when combined with bike and swim, so I have chosen to focus on riding to save my joints at the expense of blazing run splits.
Dev

Dave-

I think there are more than a few guys finishing IM’s on 8-10 hours a week of training…stand at the finish line from 15-17 hours and you will see some of them.

I trained on PC’s for about 3 months this season before my season was ended by a bike crash(bruised patella)…not exclusively…but I was doing 2-3 rides per week on them at starting at 2 hours each up to 2 1/2 to 3 hours by my last few weeks on them…all recovery rides.

A benefit I noticed was that I became more aware of my hamstrings and hip flexors, and their abilily to generate power. For Example…on regular cranks if I was really hammering and I was looking for extra power, then I would focus on recruitting the hams and hip flexors…Also on regular cranks when I was getting really fatigued I would focus on recruiting the hams and hipflexors, which could delay the rate at which I was slowing.

I did the swim and bike(no run due to knee) at IMWIS…probably shouldn’t have biked either…but my bike split dropped from a 5:27 last year to a 5:12 this year…

So first, I guess my time was not bad then.

And second, I think it is great ANYONE who can finish the race under 17 hours!! Not everyone can train 20 hours a week. And, if the greater than 14 hour folks did not show up and pay, there probably would be race for anyone!!

Dave

Ken, see what happens when you post with your real name. Anyone can seach on it and see what you have been up to…here is some more:

http://www.commsdesign.com/design_corner/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16504059

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=19205456

http://www.techonline.com/community/tech_group/soc/tech_paper/23293

http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA49352

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=21700088

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=53701288