Pacific North Westerners: Portland vs. Seattle vs. Vancouver, BC?

Triathlon Forum
1

We’re considering a move in the next year to the Pacific Northwest, and as always I’d like to tap into the esteemed wisdom of ST. We’re focused primarily on Portland, Seattle and Vancouver.

We’re going to tour the cities later this month, but would love your feedback on:
-Good neighborhoods in each city for raising kids. Not the ‘burbs necessarily, maybe 15-30 minutes downtown (non-rush hour).
-School system
-Impact of recent economic changes on the local economy and real estate market.
-Good tri clubs.
-Good places to train (run, ride, swim).
-Good tri/bike/run shops.
-Must-do’s when in town (hey, we will be doing the tourist thing later this month).

Many thanks.

Matt

2

Matt,

Say it ain’t so!

Any way. Of the three, Portland wins hands down from what I have seen and I have visited Portland a number of times, as well as Seattle and lived in Vancouver for 10 years.

I could go on and on about Portland - it has many/all the cool things that both Seattle and Vancouver have with much less rain and warmer weather all year. Some of the best Micro brews on the planet. Amazing cycling and running not too far from down town. A city that really gets it in terms of preserving it’s down-town culture, buzz and vibe and not giving it all up to the car. Home to Nike( Beaverton - just over the hill). Close to the Oregon coast and some amazing beaches. Less than a day’s drive to Napa/Sonoma and Northen California!!

I am sure true locals will chime in with more.

Vancouver - outstanding, but you better like the rain. Great running - cycling surprisingly limited depending on where you live. The best swimming pool in the world, period - Kitsilano pool. Reasonably close to Whistler - say what you want about it, on a good day it can be the best ski resort on the planet! On other days - not so much so.

Seattle - much bigger city 5-million+ I think, and all the traffic head-aches that come with that. But it also has big city advantages as it’s the biggest city in the U.S. north of San Francisco and west of Denver - great culture, great art, great ethnic mix. Birthplace for Starbucks! Same rain issues as Vancouver. Maybe a bit less rain over the year.

3

I’m not really sure you can compare Portland and Seattle to Vancouver. Two countries with quite different ways of life. Might want to narrow that down first.

4

These are very different cities hard to compare Vancouver to either Seattle or Portland as it is much smaller that the US cities and even though its in the NW, there is definitely a Canadian feel to the place (hard to explain Canadian!). There is a lot of cycling related activities in Portland, more so than the other two. I live in Vancouver and there are lots of tri related clubs and the like but one down side to Vancouver is the price of housing, especially in current US climate. Drop me a pm when you plan to head out to Vancouver, can meet up for a coffee :slight_smile:

5

Thanks Steve, appreciate the feedback.
Nothing is “so” as of yet, this is a long-term proposition. The T-Dot will have to put up with my annoying presence a little longer…

And I know it’s hard to compare the two countries, but it’s necessary. All three cities are on the shopping list.

6

I must disagree with Mr. Fleck’s accessment of the rain. Average yearly rainfall totals for the two are 36.3 inches for Portland and 36.4 inches for Seattle, so I’d say that’s a wash.

Al three are great cities that I really enjoy. Seattle is the largest of the three hands down, so you get all the benefits and drawbacks that come with that. Traffic in seattle sucks, no question about that, it’s among the worst in the nation. But still there are a lot of neighborhoods with great ‘vibes’, as it were. That’s true in all three cities.

I grew up in the Seattle suburbs, and currently live in Bellingham, which is just a little more than half way in between Seattle and Vancouver. With respect to raising a family, great neighborhood environment, and fun things to do (land/snow/water based), I believe Bellingham beats all those other cities hands down.

If you decide to move to Seattle and have other school-related questions, let me know. My sister is a high-muckety-muck in the Seattle Public School District.

-Colin

7

Personal observations

Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities on the planet, the cultural and the athletic scene beats Seattle and Portland hands down. Tons of great runs, outdoors, skiing, best swimming venues (UBC pool is amazing), jazz festival, fantastic art. Having lived in Oregon, full time in Seattle and part time in Vancouver I’d say all offer great things. Believe it or not, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver have about the same populations, the surrounding areas and sprawl are huge. Vancouver 3 million or so, Seattle 1.7 million and Portland 1.2? (I think) I believe Seattle has the best (always changing) weather, Vancouvers is very interesting. I think Oregon has the worst weather in that it gets grey rainy for long periods of time (very prone to SAD) I have heard better things about King County school systems than Oregon. Portland and Vancouver have better downtowns. Seattle has many bike paths and routes. Hard to say whose economy is going to tank more. As a place to raise your children, If you want your kids to have a world perspective, definately Vancouver. My .02

8

that’s a nice problem to have,
I’m jealous.

9

Hi Matt,

Speaking as a Seattlite, the traffic is not as bad as the others declare. “one of the worst in the country” is a tremendous overstatement. It all depends on where you live and where you need (or don’t need) to drive to. If you live and work in the city, it is not bad at all. I live just north of the University of Washington and bike/run 5 miles to work each way year round to downtown. It is a 12-15 minute commute by car non-rush hour (20-30 minutes rush) and my bike commute is about 20-25 minutes regardless of the time of day. My second work location is 1.5 miles from my house and is an even easier commute. Public transportation is a bit disappointing for a metro area this size, but is getting better. Real estate pricing is west coast high, but that is true of Portland and Vancouver also. It is a bit better now, but the prices have not been as affected as other parts of the country, which is good as the economic pressure doesn’t seem as bad here as it could be.

Now I suppose if you need to live in the suburbs and have a long interstate highway commute thing everyday and MUST cross a bridge, it can definitely be bad, but it is no worse than than the other major cities I have lived/commuted in (Chicago, Atlanta, St. Louis).

I love it here. Haven’t lived in Vancouver or Portland, so I won’t knock those, but Seattle is great. Now I like what major metro areas have to offer in terms of arts, culture, pro sports, major universities, etc…, so I like what comes with an area the size of Seattle-Tacoma.

An important factor for me is that public school system is a viable option in the city of Seattle for my two school aged children (aged 5 and 8) unlike many large cities in which suburban living (or expensive private schools) is the only real option for families with kids. My wife is heavily involved with the Seattle public schools in a parent group for capacity planning and could offer a lot of insights on the school system. There are several neighborhoods in the city that are great for families with kids. Public parks/playgrounds in Seattle are excellent.

For the tri lifestyle, Seattle is pretty good. I don’t race much anymore, so I am not really in the “tri” community, but from what I can see, it seems pretty strong. I do know of some quality tri shops in the city (Speedy Reedy and Triumph Multisport) plus some great bike shops. I do swim, bike, and run still and there are ample places for training. It does rain often, but rarely rains hard. It is very rarely too cold or icy to train outdoors.

PM me if you want to arrange to chat on the phone or email offline.

John

10

Not sure if it is an option of not, but to make your decision even more difficult, have you considered Victoria?

Victoria is a great place for triathletes. There are great places to swim, run and bike. There are great training facilities and support networks (e.g. coaching). There are also a fair number of races and good competition (e.g. Canadian national team train here).

Schools here are really good. The size of the City is small, but not too small (300k people).

I just moved here 9 months ago from Vancouver and it is a welcome change.

11

Matt,

I used to live in Portland and now I live in Seattle, so here is my take:

Portland wins hands down! I started doing tris there and the community is great! There are several very active tri clubs (I am partial to Portland Tri Club), epic rides (West Hills) and plenty of safe open water swimming (Hagg Lake, Kline Line Pond). There are tons of places to run whether you like trails or city running (Lief Erickson trail in Forest Park). There are several great bike shops and a couple tri stores. If you join one of the clubs you will get some sort of discount at least one of them.

I can’t comment on schools since I don’t have kids but, I do still own a house in Portland (as well as Seattle) and like most places the market has softened but, I think Portland hasn’t been hit as bad (as evidence of new construction, increase in home value, etc).

Also, in the off season if you like beer, there are plenty of good micro brews to visit!

In regards to Seattle, I have only been here 6 months but I think it is too big, traffic sucks (compared to Portland) and there are less places to ride closer to the city (i.e. you have drive to get to safe roads to ride).

Feel free to PM me if you want to more about training/living in Portland or Seattle.

12

I must disagree with Mr. Fleck’s accessment of the rain. Average yearly rainfall totals for the two are 36.3 inches for Portland and 36.4 inches for Seattle, so I’d say that’s a wash.

-Colin
I have never lived in any of these cities, but looking at total rainfall can be misleading. NYC gets 47.25 inches a year and Louisville KY gets 42.80 inches a year, but they get it in a few big storms a year. In Seattle it can rain for days on end.

13

I must disagree with Mr. Fleck’s accessment of the rain. Average yearly rainfall totals for the two are 36.3 inches for Portland and 36.4 inches for Seattle, so I’d say that’s a wash.

-Colin
I have never lived in any of these cities, but looking at total rainfall can be misleading. NYC gets 47.25 inches a year and Louisville KY gets 42.80 inches a year, but they get it in a few big storms a year. In Seattle it can rain for days on end.

As is does in Portland as well. Yes, almost every city on the East coast has more annual rainfall that Seattle (but hardly anyone knows that). I was trying to say that the weather in Seattle and Portland is basically the same.

-C

14

I love the “hands down” comments you’re getting:-) Clearly not the case as they contradict each other and in the end, the only “hands down” comment that means anything is the one you decide. I’m just south of Seattle and have spent plenty of time in Portland as well. You can’t go wrong in either case. Portland is absolutely awesome and really embraces the endurance lifestyle (although Bend beats them all in that regard). But if you don’t have to be in the city, just a few minutes south and you will have epic rides where you can spend all day without ever putting a foot down for a light or busy road and all the climbing you would ever want. I live about 30 seconds from one of the best pools in the world that is set up as 50 meters all summer. Great masters teams, tri groups…you’ll love it either way. The most important advice I could give you…HANDS DOWN… is to spend a little time in each and go with the one that speaks to you. Welcome to the neighborhood!

15

Thanks everyone for the responses. If you could let me know what specific neighbourhoods might be good to look at in your respective cities that would be great. Feel free to PM if you prefer. A few individual comments:

SimpleS: What part of Van are you in? How do you find it getting to decent riding?
CCF: What schools/neighbourhoods would your sister recomment in Seattle?
Jagerstar: It’s all hypothetical. I then actually have to find a job in the city!
John M: What neighbourhood are you in in Seattle? What schools would you recommend?
vandave: We thought about Victoria, however we don’t think it’s got a large enough industry in my profession.
tri2112: Where would you recommend in Portland?
SpencerDC: Thanks, appreciate the level-head. Whereabouts do you live?

16

I grew up near Seattle on the Eastside in Redmond long before Microsoft took over. I now live in the city, here’s my 2 cents. First off Bellingham in WA, and Bend in OR are outdoor recreation wonderlands. You name it, it is in abundance there. Which brings me to my point, the best part of living in the Great PNW is not the major metropolitan areas, it’s the easy access to the surrounding territory. This is why I choose to live here in Seattle, it gives me access to the entire PNW. Vancouver is an easy drive to the north, Portland even easier to the south, but better you also have easy access into Idaho and Western Montana. Yes, you will want to go there. There are MANY great Tri’s in the PNW including 2 IM’s and all are an easy drive from Seattle.

Quick note on weather, we in the PNW tell people that it rains all the time so that people from California don’t move here. The summers in the PNW rival ANYWHERE. Yes, it is grey a lot in the winter, but the temps are mild and you can train comfortably outdoors year round.

17

Have you ever considered a look at Spokane. In all honesty I can run on trails, rock climb, ride endless roads, kayak on the spokane river, go hiking, mountain biking, boating, and cross country skiing all within five minutes of my house. If you have never heard of spokane it may be worth a look.

18

We live very near Kits, there are two basic rides- North Shore (Horseshoe Bay/Cypress/Seymour) and Richmond/Steveston loop. In the summer head out east to the valley where there is more varied terrain. As regards traffic, it all depends on what you are use to, we dont think its too much of a problem, but people who come from less urban areas might think its awful. For background we use to live in London (UK) so for us we dont really notice the traffic here.

Some other areas to consider- Port Moody and Coquitlam area will give you good access to rides in the valley and there are a few groups in that area. North Shore area has some amazing trail running.

19

As a Seattleite who’s visited the other places a few times, I’d say you can’t go wrong with any of them. But you want details. Here are a few about Seattle:

Traffic can suck here, if you live far from where you work. But I’m not sure it sucks more than any big city. I ride my bike 15 minutes to my job, and it’s bike lanes the whole way. I can get around to a lot of the major central amenities in Seattle by bike (including with kids in the bike trailer). So I honestly don’t notice the traffic much. The city’s not considered as bike-friendly as Portland (fewer miles of bike lanes) but they seem to be making a real effort to fix that.

In terms of neighborhoods - based on my preference for living near where you work, it depends on your line of work. A lot of the tech-related jobs are in the suburbs to the east of Seattle (Redmond and Bellevue). They are like a lot of suburbs - generally more affluent, schools get better test scores, etc., but also afflicted with a pretty serious case of blandness (sorry to offend anyone living out there). They are also closer to country roads that are good for riding, as well as mountain bike trails.

If you’d be working more in downtown Seattle, or from your home, there are a lot of nice neighborhoods. North of downtown there’s Fremont, Wallingford, Greenlake, Ballard and Ravenna. Triathletes frequently gather at Greenlake to swim, or run on the path around it. Those tend to be the pricier neighborhoods. South of downtown there’s the Central District and Columbia City. In the process of gentrifying, with the goods and the bads that come with that. The school district has some real bright spots, but some real problems common to urban schools. So it really can vary from school to school. Chronic funding difficulties, schools in some neighborhoods that are dysfunctional and struggling to cope with the needs of lots of poor kids unprepared for school.

As far as the tri scene. My favorite shop is Speedy Reedy. Great people, great store. Another is Triumph Multisport. Not so near me, so I just don’t know them.

There are lots of triathletes and lots of triathlons within a 2-hour drive. The season fires up in June, when the water gets warmer. But the tri club scene seems a little anemic. Sounds like Portland has more going on with that. There are plenty of masters swim groups. A few groups do open-water swimming in Lake Washington a couple days a week from around June through early October. A couple running clubs, including one that has track workouts every week.

For tourists this time of year, a few fun things (weather dependent). Go for a walk/run along the waterfront in the Alki neighborhood in West Seattle. It’s one of the few parts of Seattle that actually embraces the waterfront. Or if you want trails, run at Discovery Park (you can Google these things to get details). If you like architecture, scope out the new downtown library. Very cool. If you like art museums, the Seattle Art Museum just opened in a new downtown building. You can see a stop-action car crash suspended from the ceiling. If you are looking for more funky scenes, a good place to catch local alt country/folk/rock is the Tractor Tavern in Ballard.

That’s probably information overkill, so I’ll leave it at that. PM me if you have any more questions.

20

The city’s not considered as bike-friendly as Portland (fewer miles of bike lanes) but they seem to be making a real effort to fix that.

If by that you mean painting little pictures of bicycles in the middle of car lanes, then sure they are! :wink:

Seattle’s a tough one in the winter, and an easy one in the summer. Unless you have a long commute. Then it sucks all year 'round.