“We can not have your comments in the future seem to sway anyone from anything from Cervelo (or any other brand)…or you are fired.”
you’re right. the p3c is the best bike for everyone. as is the kestrel talon and the storck… er…i forgot the model name. there, now can i be rehired by everybody?
Out of the hundreds of Cervelos that have left our shop in the last few years, only a handful have been set up in the aft position and that was usually for a specific customer request and rreason.
100% of our builds out of the box are set forward.
As far as P3C sizing. I ride a 55 P3 SL. It fits me great. Guess what, the new 56 P3C is slightly bigger. The cockpit length is definately longer and the new seatpost clamping mechanism isn’t as far forward as the forward position on the P3 (that’s how it appears to me). With the seat all the way forward, it is still a touch long for me. I’m still able to achieve basically the same fit but I’m having to “shrink” the P3C to do so. When the 54’s become available, I’ll probably switch to that. (Anyone need a gently used P3C?)
I think the 56 will be a great size for a lot of the 6’ to 6’2" guys who have been waffling between the 55 and 58 P3 (with most going for the 55). The 54 will work well for people approximately 5’8" up to 6’. This is basically how we have been sizing and selling the similarly sized Duals for the last year
Am I allowed to make comments on the P3 now that I owe one?
but I could use about 2cm more headtube.
Do you have Syntace Streamliner? If so, Gerard turned me on to availability of 1" risers. You can put those on and pull out a spacer, and be back where you were, +2CM. I took mine out when I moved my position forward. Perhaps I should also say it is a P2K, not P3, but suspect the principle should be the same (??).
“We can not have your comments in the future seem to sway anyone from anything from Cervelo (or any other brand)…or you are fired.”
you’re right. the p3c is the best bike for everyone. as is the kestrel talon and the storck… er…i forgot the model name. there, now can i be rehired by everybody?
AAAAHHH! I so friggin confused! Do I insert the entire Q-tip into my ear or just around the edge? Fittment issues!?!
Well the P3C is one fast looking bike! One question, why put the CSC sticker on it? I just never get that? It seems like the bike should cost less because you’re a rolling AD for CSC!
Well, maybe it does cost less because of that. As slowman said, the bike should have been more expensive. It isn’t.
But more importantly, the CSC stickers on our frames are removable. So if you don’t like them, just take them off (Quick note - due to an error by the painter the first batch of P3 Carbon frames has the CSC logos under the clearcoat, but this is changed now).
imho, the person who really wants that cervelo post backward should be paying more attention to that p2.5 v madone thread, because that’s probably more the style of bike he should be considering buying.
I’ll let Ivan Basso know.
Gerard.
“I’ll let Ivan Basso know.”
clamp back, saddle forward on the rails, hack the nose off the saddle. or…
clamp forward, saddle mid-rail, ride the saddle you want, with the nose intact.
assuming rules don’t inhibit ivan, i would bet he’d choose the second option.
I agree.
As far as P3C sizing. I ride a 55 P3 SL. It fits me great. Guess what, the new 56 P3C is slightly bigger. The cockpit length is definately longer and the new seatpost clamping mechanism isn’t as far forward as the forward position on the P3 (that’s how it appears to me). With the seat all the way forward, it is still a touch long for me. I’m still able to achieve basically the same fit but I’m having to “shrink” the P3C to do so. When the 54’s become available, I’ll probably switch to that. (Anyone need a gently used P3C?)
I think the 56 will be a great size for a lot of the 6’ to 6’2" guys who have been waffling between the 55 and 58 P3 (with most going for the 55). The 54 will work well for people approximately 5’8" up to 6’. This is basically how we have been sizing and selling the similarly sized Duals for the last year
How big are you? Inseam? Height?
-Colin
I ride with a 77cm saddle height (center of bb to top of saddle) and have been using a drop of ± 6" for the last 6 months. I evidently have pretty long humorous length (an imprtant and under-emphasized fit dimension) so my back is flat but angled slightly upward.
We’ve been shooting video and pictures here today so I’ll be uploading them to my sight shortly. We did about 15 minutes of video on a computrainer and very quickly I felt just like I did on the P3 so now I’m thinking I’ll stick with the size 56. For me, at 5’10’’ (but I ride like a 6 footer (I have a short ass)) really either size would work fine with minor tweaking.
Thanks for posting this information. This just goes to show that one bike is never perfect for everyone. i.e. I am also 5’10", and would find the 56cm to be way too big. I like a fairly aggressive drop (around 14cm if memory serves) but my saddle height is only 72.5cm. (short legs) I would need the 51cm, and I have a really hard time finding frames that are long enough while also having a 90mm integrated headtube.
There are many solutions to the same problem. Your view seems narrow and bit dogmatic. I think you are missing some other factors with cervelos and their reversible seat post(s):
If everyone should be riding in the ‘forward’ seatpost head position on their cervelos, then why is there a ‘rear’ position?–why does it exist? Is it only for UCI compliance, or might there be other reasons? Did you ever ask the designer (gerard, et al.) WHY he designed a reversible seatpost head for his TT bikes? He must have had some reason. Why, for example, did he not design a fixed seatpost that had only a forward position, or a fixed moderately forward position?
For me (P2), I like to ride forward, but I have found from many tests that the full far forward position on the cervelo just does not feel right for me, in terms of power generation. I have two choices: the ‘forward’ seatpost head position or the ‘rear’ seatpost head position. I could use the forward position and slide my seat back substantially, or I could use the rear position and slide my seat forward substantially.
Well, I have noticed that by far most of the weight of a rider on a bike seat (if they are sitting normally) is well behind the center of the seat. What this means is that even you are not too heavy (I am < 160 lbs), if you use a racing seat with hollow Ti rails slid all the way back, and then sit on it with your normal weight, the seat rails flex down a LOT. This does not happen noticeably with the seat slid all the way forward (as the seatpost gets the load more effectively and more directly). That is why I use the ‘rear’ seatpost head position with my saddle slid most of the way forward on my P2.
Thanks for the info. But what the hell does it mean to have a short ass and to ride like a 6 footer?
-C
I think that he means he really has no @$$.
Riding like a six-footer means that he’s so imposing on the bike that his diminutive 5’10" frame looks more like a 6’ hulk.
What a golden opportunity to tie this thread into SAC’s P3C shop thread. On that one, posters have stated that I’m a big ol ASS and yet here, Brandon says I have no ass. Where does the truth lie. Perhaps both statements are reality.
I literally have a short ass. I’m missing 2 to 3 inches of height down there somewhere. My torso is long. My legs are long. But theres not a lot going on right at the hip pivot point. For $125 I give ass and humorous consultations. Its well worth it.
I have some more photos up at www.austintricyclist.com
You need to get an “s” in that link… Nice pics.
Jim
“Did you ever ask the designer (gerard, et al.) WHY he designed a reversible seatpost head for his TT bikes?”
of course i have. we talk about geometry all the time, and have been doing so for probably 5 or so years.
gerard does this for the converse reason that kestrel designed it’s two-headed aero seat post that goes inside the seat tube of its talon. it’s to allow people who want to ride THAT SPECIFIC frame to ride it in a way for which it’s not optimized.
the talon is optimized for road geometry riding. it’s a road bike. but it’s got a facility allowing it to be ridden steep. that’s fine, as long as you realize that it’s not optimized for tri riding, and as such i say, why not just buy a bike optimized for tri riding instead?
the p3/p2k/dual is in every dimension optimized for riding with the clamp forward. sure, cervelo did what kestrel did, and arranged for users to ride it in a way for which it is not optimized.
but, when you go back, you also go up in front, and back in front, that is, the h’bars must be positioned higher, and rearward, to accommodate. that’s why the cervelos have -17° stems, so that if you flip the seatpost back you flip the stem up, such that you’ve got a 5 am woody on the front of your bike holding up your h’bars.
the problem is, it’s hard to adjust this h’bars fore/aft with this woody. much easier to put a 5cm, 6cm, 7cm, 8cm, whatever, -17° stem on the bike. but, then, you need 7cm worth of spacers under the stem. this answers the question the other poster made, which is, why is it so many cervelos have so many spacers under the stem? no, it’s not that cervelos head tubes are too short, it’s because people are basically making a semi-steep road bike out of a tri bike.
it’s easier just to slide the saddle forward on a talon, a madone, a soloist, or p2.5, slap aero bars on it, and go. trying to rig a p3 to be riddden at 74° or 75° is silly. but worse than that, most dealers haven’t even thought this through. they just set up the p3 with the clamp back because it looks more normal, and that’s a REALLY f^*king lazy approach toward retailing, if you ask me.
This is my fundamental problem with bike sizing, what difference does it make whether I get a 54 bike versus a 56 bike. It seems to me that one can fit the bike the same, meaning a 54 bike will have a relatively longer stem than a 56 all things equal. Obviously there would be a big difference between a 52 and a 58 bike. I don’t understand why people rip on manufactures that size their bike S, M, L it seems to me that with all the adjustments in stem length and height and seat heigh and fore-aft position it really doesn’t make a difference once the general size is set (i.e., a 5"10" person) could fit on either a 54 or 56 bike depending on the stem length and spacer height etc, and be equally aerodynamic. Maybe from a weight perspective things are different but not significantly. Comments?
“what difference does it make whether I get a 54 bike versus a 56 bike.”
how it handles.
this is not an issue if you’re a goddam cretin (not you personally, the corporate “you”) and you accept the fact that all triathletes are just like what the roadies say they are, and can’t ride, and can’t handle a bike, and wouldn’t know a nice handling bike if it bit them in the ass.
but on the assumption that you feel triathletes are capable of feeling the same sort of differences between how two bikes handle, then this is the difference made by choosing the correctly sized bike in a geometry appropriate to your riding style.